The Difference Between a Good Estimator vs a Great Estimator

Most contractors aren't running bad companies — they're running good ones that have hit a ceiling. The same is true of estimates. Plenty of contractors write a good estimate. Far fewer write a great one.

In this 200th episode of Contractor Cuts, Clark and James break down the specific differences between a good estimator and a great one — and why that gap is where your profit quietly lives.

They cover:

• Why the estimator role looks completely different for a GC than for a trade company
• Good estimators price the drawings — great estimators price what's actually going to happen
• Spotting pinch points and design problems the architect and homeowner missed
• Why inclusions AND exclusions are what protect your margin
• Writing an estimate three audiences can read: the client, the crew, and a future project manager
• Why markup shouldn't be the same percentage on every line item
• How risk and time — not just cost — should drive what you make on a line
• The 48-hour turnaround and the estimate delivery process that wins jobs
• Why an estimate that starts at $50K and ends at $90K burns your reputation

If you've ever landed the job and then watched the profit disappear, the problem probably started on the estimate.

🚧 2027 Growth Conference — Austin, TX | Jan 10–12. Two days diving deep into your company — what's working, what's broken — ending with your 2027 blueprint. Day 3: hands-on electives like financial management and estimate writing to make it real. Early Bird (very limited): 30% off + 3 hotel nights covered. Sign up at contractorcuts.com

Contractor Cuts is a weekly podcast for contractors who want to build a better business — covering sales, operations, hiring, finances, and everything in between.

🔗 Book a free call: contractorcuts.com 

🔗 ProStruct360 software + coaching: prostruct360.com

Transcript

Welcome And The Estimator Question

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad, and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Welcome to Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner. And I'm James McConnell. Thank you for joining us again this week. So today we are talking and comparing estimators. Good and a good estimator versus great estimator. And what's the difference? There's a lot of good estimators out there. There's a lot of companies we work with that build good estimates. How do we go from good to great? And how do we move as an estimator

Why Estimators Differ By Company

SPEAKER_02 1:41

up? And one thing I think we should start with too is the way we coach, it depends on the setup of the company as to how the estimator role is dealt with. On a standard GC company, we don't push an estimator role when it's a full-scale general uh contracting remodeling company. Um on new construction, it's different. On really the trades, it's different. If you've got an electrical company, an HVAC, a pool company, uh, a roofing company, if you've got something that you're quoting that is uh easily measured without a lot of nuance, um, you know, a decking company. Hey, there's about 12 things I need you to ask a client on the deck, but it's really straightforward to do an estimate. So an estimate for one of those one-off trade companies, we build the structure of the company differently to have an estimator role, kind of a sales estimator role in that company. As a GC, as someone who is doing under 15 million uh a year as a GC, the structure is different. Uh, and the way that we do it, uh, we're not gonna go too deep into it because we're talking about how you're great, but to understand the way that we lay the the job roles out is your general manager, usually the owner of the company as a small company, is the estimator, the front-end desk estimator, first point of contact salesperson. They build a desk estimate and they pass it to their project manager who goes on site with the estimate, refines it, asks the questions, does all that stuff and takes it to the finish line. And the reason we do that, uh again, I'm not gonna go too deep into it, but the main reason we do that is on a renovation, there is a thousand touch points that don't make it to the paper. There is, oh, and also I care about this. Also, don't, don't uh forget we need to make sure that that room doesn't get any dirt knit because X, Y, and Z. And there's all this information on the estimate in every single conversation that the guy that your guy out in the field is getting in their brain, but it's not being written on the paper. It's not part of the scope, but it's part of the request from the client or the or the client has some special request, or hey also, you know, even to the point of you have to know how the renovation is uh uh goes to be able to help decipher what level of finish we're gonna do and why are we gonna do it this first and that second. So the in the GC role when you're doing full-scale stuff, having a one-off estimator doesn't work as well. Um, the you can do it that way, and companies do. Um what I don't like about it is the handoff from one person to the next person to the next person. The client's experience of that is I've said the same thing to four different people, and I don't know who I'm talking to. I don't know who's the boss here. I don't know. Like I sent him an email and he said he's not working the project to talk to my project manager, but I need a quote on doing an addition.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

It's like when you call customer support and they're like, What's your name? What's your number? And what's your email address and what's your account number? And then you go through the whole thing, like, oh, let me let me get you to somebody else. And you get to that last next person, like, what's your name? What's your name? What's your number?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

What's your doctor's office? I fill out all the forms, I gotta go back and re-explain to the nurse, and then the doctor comes in, I gotta explain it again.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

By the I'm I'm like patient on the first one, and I'm just not by the second one. I just said all this.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Oh, ask Susan. She's got my my folder. You should ask her. Yeah. We just spoke. She knows everything about me. Did you guys connect? Let me get Susan's number. Hey, Susan. Uh, so the again, there's a lot of nuance in what we said. And honestly, like with coaching, we're building the company that you want with uh advice and help on how and why we do it the way we do it. So, you know, we I I've got a guy that wants to build towards an estimator role that he has in the company. Great, we'll do it that way. Let me tell you the pros and cons and what we got to put in place for that. So, that being said, today we're talking about a good estimator versus a great estimator. And if you are a one-man show, if you are a two, three, four-man show, but you are running the company, you are most likely the estimator. So we're talking about you if you're listening to this, uh, not just specifically an estimator person in your company or a one-off, all I do is estimating. The this is built to scale and work that way. But if you are a one-man show, you are an estimator. You are a project manager, you are a general manager, you are the CEO, you are the janitor, you are everything as a one-man show. So listen to this and under and try to see do I do the good stuff or do I do the great stuff? Um, and I think that's something else that with the number of people we've had come into ProStrust, it's really apparent that most people coming for help aren't these companies that are just a pile of trash. Like it's not this big ruined company that doesn't know where they're going. I think 90 to 95% of our clients that come in have good companies. It's just how do we go from good to great? And I think that's what we do on the coaching side. I think a misnomer that we have with people uh about coaching and consulting is I mean, I'm doing pretty good. I did 2 million last year. I did 4 million last year. I'm doing pretty good. I've just kind of hit my ceiling and I feel like I'm working 80 hours a week and everything's on me. How do I structure this to grow? And those are the companies we can take to the moon. Those are the companies that can really turn things out. Now, if you're not that we can help you too and get you to that spot, then from there grow to great. Right. And so I think what that's something I've heard before with the coaching side is you know, I we're doing fine. I don't know if we need consulting. That's that's great. Let's talk structure. Let's talk not fixing necessarily what you have, but let's redo your structure currently so we can scale and duplicate you. Because usually those guys are like are the main artery for the company. Everything has to flow through them or the company falls apart. And that's what we need to move away from. All right. Estimating. Yeah, don't go too deep. I won't, I'll keep, I'll keep saying I'm not gonna talk about this a lot, but 30 minutes later.

The Core Good Vs Great Split

SPEAKER_02 7:37

All right. So a good estimator captures a scope, right? A great estimator is profitable with that scope and thinks about the things that aren't gonna happen, right? So we're trying to eliminate those things. The difference is a good estimator is gonna give you a good scope. Uh, and so how do we take that to being a profitable job? And that's how we make a great estimator. Um our most listened to podcast that we have is our good project manager versus great project manager. Uh, and I think this is kind of a build on that as the different roles in there. But if you haven't listened to that one, go back. It was probably a number of episodes ago. And also today, I think, is our 200th episode. Oh happy 200. Happy happy 200. Bra. Brah. All right, James. Give me kind of the first thing you have for what's the difference of good versus great.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Do you have um uh a good estimator prices what is on the drawings? But a great one prices what's going to happen. That's a good one. It's a great one. It's a good one. Um so like we've all had the drawings and we're looking at it, and we're kind of mapping out everything that we see and putting it in our structure, however you do it. I always like to do it in chronological order about what's happening. But there's always, you know, there's always things like the architect isn't necessarily thinking through the construction elements and what's being affected, and the homeowner doesn't know what they don't know. And so it ends up being on the GC to look through those drawings. And the great ones are going to look through that and identify issues with the drawings and what it means for the actual finished aesthetic of the project. There's there's nothing wrong about going in there and taking the drawings and bidding it out exactly as it says. Yeah. And that is honestly probably the safest route to go because your hands are clean. And once you start digging into it and pointing things out, you're creating a lot of work for yourself. But ultimately, if you want your client to have the experience that you know you're gonna be happy with and they're gonna give you a good review, they're kind of gonna be expecting you to point these things out. Because if you don't, what's the one thing you're always gonna hear back? Well, you're the contractor, you should have told them no, right?

unknown 10:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Um, so that's one.

Pinch Points And Client Intent

SPEAKER_02 10:10

I I think with that a good example is I remember looking at we were doing a uh addition, but it was in a kitchen bumping bumping out the wall and adding kind of doubling the size of the kitchen and kind of pushing out into the backyard. And on it, I remember the drawings. There was a corner of the island that was like off the corner is about a two and a half foot gap to where the fridge was. And the fridge was also gonna come out another four to six inches, depending on what fridge they they purchase.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:37

And I remember going and be like, hey, let's set it, like, let me set up some boxes. Let me show you what this feels like to walk through this gap. And so we ended up redoing that and kind of we brought the the it was a big island, anyways, brought it in a foot. But either way, like we call this here a pinch point. Yeah. This is a pinch point. But a great estimator is understanding what the final product's going to be and also getting to know their client and saying, hey, this is what the drawing is from what you told the architect. Let me tell you from what I see and from what I hear you saying, I think we need to move some of this around.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Now you said you are a normal-sized individual, right? You're not, you're gonna need to get through about a three-foot-wide space to kind of work around. Yeah, this ain't that. This is not it.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Uh, I think also along with that, the negative of this, the pushback on this is when I capture everything like that, my my bid's 20% higher than the next guy. Like I can bid the project as is, and it's gonna be, you know, this new construction is $900,000. Or if I go through and say, well, we also need to think about this, we need to think about this, what about that? And I start finding the holes in the scope that they that I know that they want. Uh contractor A bids it at a hundred uh nine hundred thousand. I come in at 1.2 because I've thought about some of the stuff and I'm also you know finishing the basement, which they didn't have, and I'm really detailed on it. So part of this is how we present it to the client and how we, and if you go to last week's episode, how we set ourselves up to be um the representative and the advocate for our clients, viewing it like it's our project. So I always say, listen, I can I can bid this as the drawings call for. We're gonna, it's gonna save you a couple hundred grand, which I'm cool with. We can do. Let's talk about what you're looking for and try and make sure we get capture all that in pricing. Uh, so it's that's why we have different phases of estimates because as we go deeper, we're refining that scope, but also it allows us to start bidding around their wants and needs, not just the scope that's on paper in the drawings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

That's uh I was actually speaking with someone yesterday about you know, desk estimate to site estimate. And this is kind of the first time that I've I think I've explained it this way. But I basically I said the desk estimate, the goal of the desk estimate is I'm I'm basically getting them to give me emotional answers, like what is the goal of the renovation? What is like the purpose behind it, instead of just getting into the nitty-gritty or like the scientific detail about exactly what they're trying to do. And I'm filtering that through my own filter and putting together an estimate. And then the next phase of that is getting the details and wrapping, you know, real things around that emotional language. And the only reason I say that is the that is like the biggest part of uh figuring out what they actually want is getting them to dream a little bit about the project instead of like well, what can you afford? Because they don't know. That's why they're getting estimates done. Yeah. And they take this to the bank and figure out how much money I can get.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

Yeah. Yeah. Uh you know, adding finishing a basement to move your special needs child into it is totally different than finishing a basement to sell the house in six months. Yeah. Right? Like those are two totally different renovations. And if we get drawings of finishing a basement, I can bid it, but those, I mean, I could bid that at 80,000, I could bid that at 500,000. And where do we the the guidance on the the great estimators are good at at helping clients filter down without the clients even knowing they're they're filtering down what they want. Yeah. And being able to work through it and bidding what the client's actually looking for. And also not losing the bid because I'm overpricing it, because I'm capturing so much detail that they want. All right.

Inclusions And Exclusions That Save You

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Next, I I the a good estimator writes on the scope what's going to happen. Uh a great estimator includes what is included in that and what isn't included in that, right? So if I'm a good estimator is like, hey, we're gonna do um new cabinets. Um a great estimator says new cabinets. This doesn't include X, Y, and Z. This does include X, you know, and so we're listing the inclusions and exclusions, not just what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Yeah. Um that's like painting the uh let's say we're not we're not replacing the cabinets, we're painting the cabinets. Uh you happen to know what their budget is, and so you're going through and you're already augmenting what you would do because you know what their budget is. And so part of your exclusions is we are we're we're repainting all the cabinets, we're taking all the hardware off, we're taking all the hinges off, we're prepping the doors, it's one rough sanding, two coats of paint, and then the exclusions are we're not painting the insides of the boxes. Yeah, you've got to put that type of stuff in there. If you're if you're gonna be doing uh if you're like painting, if you're gonna get new cabinets and you're gonna paint them on site, you don't necessarily need to put this in the cabinet installation line. This does not include paint because you're gonna have a line right under that that's paint the cabinets. But it's the things that you're not doing that you're trying to get inside of their budget. You want to point those exclusions out for sure.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

Or you know, repaint cabinets. This does not include inside of the boxes. This includes switching of the hardware, but not changing of location. Like I've been stuck with that before. Not drilling you two holes when you've got knobs on everything. Yes. And so it's like I I will switch it out. I'm pulling the hardware off. It's easy to put new ones back on, but I'm not going to move the location. I'm not going to wood putty the old holes and put new like we can do that. That's just extra money. And so clarifying what is and isn't included is a great, uh, you know, a good estimator is like, hey, we're going to repaint the cabinets, we're going to use this paint, we're going to do this, we're going to do this. That's great. That's how a good estimate's written. A great one says, but it doesn't include these things, and it does include these things.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

I was just imagining a really petty situation where they didn't pay for the two holes and they they installed the poles, but they're just all dangling. Uh check the estimate. I didn't. I mean, you bought the hardware. I don't know what you want me to do.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

You requested the earrings set up. I don't know. We're just going to hang. You want these dangle knobs? Uh all right. A good

Write Estimates Others Can Run

SPEAKER_02 17:19

estimator writes an estimate the way the job runs. A great estimate uh estimator writes the estimate for clarity for the homeowner, the crew, and for a future PM. If I'm gonna start replacing myself, I need to start writing these estimates the way that anyone could pick them up and run the job with. You know, most of us starting as one-man shows, write estimates for what I need to capture. Frame the house. Yes. We gotta put sheetrock in the rooms. We're gonna be, you know, it's like install sheetrock. Installation for the house. Well, what does that mean? What R value are we doing in which location? Because if I say uh installation of the house, my crew's just gonna blow installation everywhere and not measure R value, not like there's some things that we need to define on what because different R values are different price.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

And so Did you did you ever do the thing in this was like fifth grade for me? Our teacher came in as an alien, and she had peanut a peanut butter, a jar of peanut butter, a jar of jelly, and a loaf of bread. And we each had to, she would like set up a table, and each kid would come up to her and attempt to get her, an alien who's never heard of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Yeah. And it's like, okay, she'd be very literal. Yes, and they'd be like, open the jar, and she'd be like, you know, I don't know how to open this jar, or like put the peanut butter on the bread. She'd just put the whole jar on the piece of bread. Yeah. That's kind of like writing an estimate, but you have to be like, there's like a there's an art and a dance of like, how literal do I need to be? How much do I need to capture? Because this could be a novel. Yeah. Or it could be a really good estimate. And there's a certain amount of trust that you need to have, like the person you're dealing with is an adult human that can uh, you know, see what you're writing and understand it and not be an alien that doesn't know how to make a PBJ.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

And and there's also two types of clients. And the one is like what you're talking about. They've never done construction. They they are an alien, they don't understand the language of what we're talking about, so they misunderstand. And they've got a picture of what their their house should look like. And so when they read it, they read it with a with that in their mind biasy towards, well, yeah, that's what I wanted. Yeah. That's perfect. And they read it though through their filter. That's a great uh the second type of client is going to look at your language and be like, boom, I got him. He's gonna do this for that price sucker. And they're gonna use it against you and act like I just didn't know how to do a sandwich. Like you said you're gonna do it. Yeah, I'm not gonna pay you until you do it. That's about 10%. 90% are the other type that are have this, like, this um, I forget, like a familiar familiar bias or a uh uh confirmation bias harmation bias to where it's like I this is what I wanted, cool. This is what this what I'm getting. That's what they're saying. Yeah. And so I think we take those people and put them in the 10% bucket of like, oh, they're just trying to get over on me. No, they just they're literally reading it the way that they are seeing the renovation. Yeah. And so to be able to refine that from not just um the way I I'm gonna run the job, but more to where a the homeowner understands exactly what's on it, the crew can read it and know what they what they will get paid for. Because part of this of being a good uh company is I want my crews to know exactly what they're doing, get paid for that, and get on to the next job. And the more vague these estimates are, the more the crew has go back work or do the wrong thing. And we're costing our crews money this way, and that's not okay. That's that's not fair to do to them, and you're gonna burn through them really quickly. So part of writing a really good estimate is to really treat your crews right because now we're taking the scope from the estimate to the crews, and it needs to be defined of what they are getting paid for. And then finally, like I said, I'm writing my estimate to where next year, when I hire a project manager, I'm teaching him how to run jobs. Um he can look at my estimate or her or her, they can look at my estimate and can take that and run a job without asking me a thousand questions. Now, there's gonna be questions, obviously, but the if I can eliminate most of the um the stupid questions. That's what you wanted to say. If I can eliminate the gray areas on it, then there's not like, hey, what do you mean by this? Hey, when you said this, are we gonna do this or that? And all of those questions are great. And those are not because you're an idiot, it's because I didn't write a good estimate. And so that's what that's what a great estimator uh how they write

Markup Math Risk And Time

SPEAKER_02 21:51

it. A good estimator knows how much I'm gonna mark up a line item. Hey, I need to make, I need to mark up a line item by 35% on every single job, but 30%. Those those change on markup depending on what is and isn't included in your line item. So we don't include overhead and expenses in the job cost of the client. So I don't put my gas on there. I don't put my project manager's pay on there. What I do is I have a certain amount of markup that I know. And I know that our overhead for the company is 18%. So I know before starting, my overhead's 18, including all of my expenses. What I'm putting on the estimate is my cost of goods, what it costs me to do that job, the labor to get it done, materials to get it done. So I know I got to have a 35% markup. Now, other guys, and it's not wrong, it's just you got to pick your lane, say have a project manager fee on it. And that's gonna be going towards my project manager's pay, might go towards gas. We've in the past, uh, out in Texas put toll uh and other expenses like that. Texas toll charges, toll charges and other things that we know that we're like, that's kind of cost of goods, that's kind of expenses, but those are tolls to go to your job. So we're gonna tie it into cost of goods. And so I definitely. Identifying and knowing what's the cost of goods, what's overhead, and depending on where those dollars sit in what bucket, what's my markup need to be on my job. So understanding those numbers are different than just saying, hey, I'm just slap 30% on everything and I'll be good.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah. And also the things that you can't make that profitability on that are going to affect your profitability on that job, but are not going to keep you from executing and getting the profit you need out of the job. So like an HVAC line, you're not making 35% on it unless you own an HVAC company. Roofing. You're not going to make more than 15% on that. So that those are big ticket items that are going to drag your profit percentage down. But if you map it out on a Gantt chart, that $20,000 roof is going to take you two days to execute. So it's not, you don't need to make 30% on it.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

How much of my time and effort am I putting into it? That's how much I need to make on it. And risk. And risk.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

So like your interior, you're doing a bunch of trim and you're not replacing the floors. You're just covering all the floors. Well, even if I'm covering all the floors, you got that one dude helping your main guy that is putting painter's tape down on the floor and covering it with another layer. And then you guys are taking all the flooring up, and then you're taking the blue tape up that's only supposed to be down for three days. And you got stripes all over the floor. You're like, I don't know how it happened. Bobby's house. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

We speak from experience. Uh that being said, it's also the crews that you're risking, right? So my my handyman general tradesman is going to be a little more risky because it the guy's one-man show and he doesn't have eight grand sent in the bank to cover a big mess up. Yeah, he's living on the razor's edge of the day of lightning. But on that, I know I'm going to be more at risk. If they call me back in six months and I need to go fix something, I'm probably paying out of pocket for that. Yeah. I'm going to try to get them come out and we might work something out, but I'm going to pay for materials and he comes and fixes it. That's still a risk for me. If I'm using a roofing company, one of my roofing subs, I like to find a company, not the guys that are advertising online that are insanely $700 a square, uh, and not the one-off dude that literally is trying to Google how to do a roof, but he's just, you know, a handyman. Uh, I want to find the guys that are running one or two crews that have been doing this for a while, they're fully insured, they've got a full company going, and they're they're around for a long time. They're they're a decent sized company. Those type of companies, I can have a 15% markup on that. I got three phone calls, pick out a color of shingle and send it to them and it gets done. That's all, that's all my job is. So three phone calls for 15% of a $20,000 roof, that's that's really good money.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

Um, and so understanding those percentages of, hey, this job came in at 22%. But if we take out the HVAC, we take out the roof and the granites and cabinets, which were both uh low, low markup line items, if we just look at the everything else, I'm making 40%. It's just those big line items are dragging the whole thing down. So we're good to go on that.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

And that that really is a skill because when you when you first start building out estimates and you know you're you want to land the jobs, it's like, yeah, this seems really high. Well, it's because you've priced all of your low-risk, uh, high-ticket items at the same profit percentage. Um so just being able to feel comfortable sending that estimate out, knowing that even though your profit is lower than you want, you've ganted it out. You've looked at the map, and you're like, you know what? Even though this percentage is that lower than we like, this actually still works because of how much we're making per day.

SPEAKER_02 26:53

This is a two-week job and I'm making 80,000 as opposed to this is a two-month job and I'm making 80,000. Yeah. That's a lot, a lot difference of time consumption of my day.

Turnaround Process And Calendar Control

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Yeah. Um a good estimator gets their estimates turned around fast and emails them over to the client. A great estimator has a maximum 48-hour turnaround and does multiple revisions and has a game plan of the estimating process. I am not as an estimator in charge of just getting numbers to this client, right? A lot of a good estimator can turn out an estimate and get it over to them quickly. A great estimator has a process of that client receiving the estimate. It's, I'm gonna turn around quickly. Hey, can we set up a Zoom? I want to talk through it. I got a couple questions. I'm gonna walk them through and I'm gonna present the numbers. I'm gonna see if they're happy or upset by the final number. We're gonna go from there. We're gonna make plans for the next move. I've got an estimating process of delivery and client care with the estimate. A good estimator is like, hey, here it is, email it over, $86,000. Let me know if you want to move forward. Great. You built it quickly, you got it out to them. A great estimator has the full process to walk with the client. Um, I think that one stands alone. Um, a good estimator has a a week planned. I know what I'm doing this week. And again, this is more estimator project manager, like a one-man show. Um, a good estimator is planning out what I'm doing today, tomorrow, and Wednesday. I've got the whole week planned. Um, a great estimator has multiple weeks out. I can tell you when you schedule an estimate with me and you want me to meet you on Friday. I've already booked next week for Monday to do a Zoom to talk through the estimate. And then next Wednesday we're gonna do some revisions and I'm gonna come back out. Like, I can plan out, I've got a really tight calendar that I can plan out two, three, four weeks in advance. So I know I have enough time when something comes up.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

And that doesn't even necessarily mean that your calendar is I have I have a whole month in front of me scheduled. It's that you have a process in which that allows you to schedule things out. I know that there's going to be something over here two weeks from now. Yeah. So I'm gonna put a time block there. Yep. It doesn't mean that it's set in stone, but I know that it has to happen and that needs to be firmed up. And as soon as it is, I'll lock it in. But there's a process in which that you lay your week out so that you know where the gaps are going to be. And if somebody calls you and they're like, hey, I really hope this can turn around in three days, you can just look at your calendar and tell them what's going to work for you. For Thursday, I'm wide open, I'll put you down that morning. And some people don't even need your speed to them, is irrelevant. Yeah. It's like we have the drawings, we're looking at multiple bids, and uh, we're not planning on getting this started for another three months, we're still working on XYZ. Great. Would it be okay if I took the next two weeks to look over this kind of slowly and put together some really dialed in thing? If I can take two weeks and break it up into 30-minute increments where I find little gaps in my schedule and I can put together a really well thought through estimate, and it's not it's not gonna change the effect on if we get the chance that the job or not, because they're not making a decision for three weeks. That's a nice thing for me because I can I can map that out and take some time and be even more thorough with a desk estimate than if it were like we want to get this going, we have three days to get all these bids in. Well, I'm gonna miss more.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

I think that's your personality is great with that. I think most guys hear that and go, Can I get two weeks? And then after 13 days, oh crap, I gotta write this estimate. And they sit and and just knock it out in one day, anyways. Um I think speed number one is the most important in terms of I am subconsciously telling my client, this is what it's like to work with me. If you need something, I'm on top of it. Um, number two, what James just said is great if it's a job, especially if we're doing a two million dollar build. Yes, we we're gonna need a couple weeks to go through this. Um, but I think number two on that, outside of speed and what what James said is what we said last note, choreographing the estimate process. So it's not, I go to the estimate, hey, can I you got three weeks to before you're gonna make a decision? Cool, I'll get it to you in a couple weeks. And then I they don't hear from me for two weeks. If I'm part of, if that's part of my process, hey, I'm gonna sit down on Friday and start this. Are you available for any calls if I have any questions about this as I start building this out? Cool. And and they're part of my process over the next two weeks, and I'm filling them in, we're having conversations, not daily, but once, twice between now and when they get the estimate. I want to make sure that I'm still dating them.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Yeah, and just little touch points, like you're on their shoulder saying, Hey, I'm still here, don't worry. I'm right here. So I think I think that's the key is Hey, you wanna y'all want to do ship lap? What? No, it's a modern y'all want an agreeable gray, huh? Oh, yeah. Just some white subway tile. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

All

Winning Without Change Order Chaos

SPEAKER_02 32:01

right. The last one we've got on our list, a good uh estimator can win a bid. A great estimator wins jobs that they're we're actually gonna deliver at that number. A great estimator finds all of the numbers along the bidding process. Uh a good estimator is just trying to get signatures on the bottom of the estimate. And those are the companies that start at 50K and end at 90K on their estimates because, well, we didn't capture this, and that's a change order. And even if that's gonna land you more jobs as a company, you are burning your reputation. That is an unenjoyable experience for your client. There's so much friction, there's frustration on the change orders. A great estimator identifies all that and walks the client through the actual final price. And we don't bid it at 90, knowing that someone else is bidding at 50. We say, hey, I can get this to 50, but here are all the spots that I think you're gonna have change orders. And from what we talked about, I think what you want. And so a great estimator is going to land the job and deliver on the numbers that we're at when we get the signature on the quote. James, what does a bad estimate feel like on day one? Where does the crew end up eating it? Like how does can you think of any times in your history of that you saw an estimate and you were when back when you were project managing and you were from the beginning, you're like, this is not gonna be good. Maybe a takeover of someone else who didn't work here anymore.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yeah, the guy that I started working for, uh, he would write all my estimates and like when I would pick those bad boys up. You're talking about me. Yeah. Uh there was just like no detail, it was just very ambiguous. Um no, a bad estimate when you uh and the a takeover is a perfect example. So even like when uh I had project managers working for me, we'd have to let somebody go, taking over those estimates that have been they put it out there, and then there's editing over the course of the project. And when you pick up a scope like that, it's so so confusing because it's very specific to how that person is thinking. And honestly, most of the time it's just like I I know I have to put information on this estimate to explain what's going on here, but I I just need to do it the quickest way possible to get this work order out. And so you just end up having a very disjointed um line item per line item that is like you understand the gist of what's going on, but that's just never good enough. Uh and like the cadence of what's happened in the past, like you don't know any of the any of like the small little idiosyncre uh idiosynchronous idiosyncrasies. Yeah, that's the right firm form of that word. Yes, you don't understand any of those types of things that have gone on over the course of the project. And the client will tell you where my project manager said we'd give.

SPEAKER_02 35:00

Yeah, but they won't tell you what they're giving on. Yeah. So it's it's a one-sided conversation about it. I I think that also brings up a really good point. When you get to the size that you got PMs and guys running jobs, and you get to a spot where you got to fire them. Everything that you're doing as a one-man, two-man, three-man show today, even if you've got employ uh employees in place as project managers right now, how you write the estimate and is how your guys that you're training are gonna write their estimate. And so we learned a lot firing guys as to what we needed to require on estimates, on jobs, on our power scores, like how do we keep them accountable? And that's by us starting to do it. It's whatever bar we set, our employees are gonna get about 80 to 90% of that bar. So if I if I have an average estimate, they're gonna have a below average estimate that they're trained on how to write. Um, but yeah, I think takeovers are a great example of that. I I the hardest part too is once you have a PM that you fire and they wrote a really crappy estimate and are running a crappy job, it's the exact same takeover as when a homeowner's hiring you to take over for another contractor, except that you're the one to blame. So we don't have like, I don't know why they did it this way. You know, you shouldn't have picked them. You should have gone with like you don't you can't have that mentality because, oh, you did pick us and my employee failed at this, right? And so you don't realize how bad you're allowing estimates to go out because that employee can run jobs in their head real well. Um, and so that accountability on it and how we set the tone and the process of how we write it that everyone has to do. I don't care if you've been doing this for 30 years. I don't care if this is your first job in construction. This is our estimating process that we all follow. So then if I got to replace you, if you quit, if something happens and you get sick and you're gone for three months, I can pick up your jobs because they're written properly. So it all kind of works on uh internally with each other. All right.

Get Your Estimates Reviewed And Retreat

SPEAKER_02 36:59

That is our full list of splits. Um if you uh one thing that we do really well, I think, during intake and onboarding is helping assess your estimate. So if you want us to look at some estimates, even if you're not in coaching yet, hit us up. Go to contractorcust.com, hit contact us. I love to look at an estimate, kind of talk through how you're building it, what you can do differently. Uh go to contractorcust.com. You can set up a meeting with me. Uh, I can introduce you to James if you don't like me. I love cutting up an estimate. James is really good. We we actually offer to our coaching clients an additional service where James does estimate consulting. Uh, and you know, you know, we had a guy that does all residential and he had a uh commercial dog kennel that he wanted to do. So James stepped in and helped help him write that estimate, put together kind of coaching combined with working in the company. Um, so if you need help with that, let us know. We'd love to help you out with how you write your estimates and kind of training on that. And you should come to the retreat in January, January 10th through 12th, and we're in Austin. We've got a full estimate writing elective that we've got that you can come to. It's a really cool three-day uh conference. It's two days of a retreat. And the third day, which is a workshop where you're gonna have some electives to choose from to really kind of dive deep into working in the company and on your processes, where day one and day two of the retreat are very educational, but more looking and working from a 30,000-foot view on how to fix your company. Day three is actually in the weeds fixing it. So it's a really cool uh conference. Love to see you guys there. Go to contractorgut.com to get more information about it. And hopefully we'll get you signed up. If you have any questions too, feel free to reach out. Uh anyone coming to the retreat, I usually do a one-on-one meeting with them just to make sure it's right for them. Um keep your questions appropriate. Keep them appropriate. I don't want to answer questions about what James is like in real life. You know, like those are not good questions for me. So yeah, understood. Thank you guys for joining us. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.