The Sales Process That Wins Contractors More Jobs (Part 2)

Description: The site visit isn't a measuring trip — it's a date. And how you run it determines whether you get the signature or get ghosted.

In part 2 of this two-part series, Clark and James pick up right where part 1 left off and walk through everything from the on-site estimate to landing the signed contract. This is where the real money is made — or quietly lost.

They cover:

• How to run a site visit so the client sees you as a guide, not a note-taker
• The "have you considered" questions that build instant trust and unlock bigger budgets
• How to read a client's level of pickiness before you bid the job
• The smart way to talk through finish levels (drywall, trim, fixtures) so clients self-select their price tier
• Why your line items need to speak to three audiences — the client, the crew, and future-you
• The 48-hour window after the site visit where most contractors lose the emotional momentum
• How to talk about price without apologizing or negotiating against yourself
• When and how to pitch the CEA — the "meet the parents" moment of your sales process
• The follow-up plays that keep you in the game between presentation and signature
• Why a CEA you can't deliver on is worse than no CEA at all

If you've been stuck losing jobs to cheaper bids or watching estimates go cold — this is the playbook that flips it.

If you're doing $350K–$2M a year in revenue, coaching pays for itself. A 5% efficiency gain alone covers the cost — and that's before we even talk about growth. 

We help contractors stop losing money on crews, change orders, and inefficient operations — and start scaling. 

Ready to have the conversation? Set up a free call at contractorcuts.com

Contractor Cuts is a weekly podcast for contractors who want to build a better business — covering sales, operations, hiring, finances, and everything in between.

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Transcript

Part Two Setup And Recap

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad, and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.

How To Run The Site Visit

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Welcome back to Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner. And I'm James McConnell. Thank you. Yes, for Bing Bang being here. Uh today we are on part two of the Art of the Cell of how do we really go from first contact to getting a signature on the estimate where we lead the relationship and create that trust where the client wants to wants to go with us, where we are efficient with our time, but also beat the competition with our high level of detail, response, and really guiding our client down the path of the experience of whatever we need to do on that project. Today, or let's talk, let's review last week. We went intake, we went, how do you do the first contact, uh leading up, selling the desk estimate, doing the desk estimate and making the decision to do it or not do it, how to do it and where how we're gonna show up on site when we go to the estimate. We stopped at that point. Um, and then this week we're talking about showing up at the site estimate, presenting the revisions of the estimate, how do you revise it? What should the evolution of your estimate look like from desk estimate to revisions to beyond? Uh, and how do we sell the client on signing a contract that still is going to be edited? Um, well, that's one thing that we do differently than most contractors is we get a signature on the estimate before the estimate's finalized. And so, how does that work? What uh how do we sell that? What makes the clients want to do that? Um, and then every step along the way. So that's today. That's the second half of this. If you haven't listened to last week, go back and listen to that one first. It'd probably be helpful to set this up. Um, but James, Clark, give me some of your rules about the site visit. You've done your desk estimate, you've had a really good conversation with them. Um give me a one-man show version as well as you're sending your project manager out there to do the on-site. Uh, give me kind of both versions of how you set up going into that estimate and and showing up to that estimate.

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Well, um I think they're the same because if I'm sending the guys, I'm gonna have them do it how I'm doing it. It's true. Um show up early. Bring some booties, shoe coverings, shoe coverings, booties, bro. Bring that booty because you don't want to have to take your shoes off. Yeah, because you might not be wearing the same sock that day. Yeah, holes in your socks. Well, it's just professional. It's just shows you're caring about their house. Yep. Um and have your whether it's printed out or on an iPad, printed out honestly, is just easier and better, in my opinion. Um, so you can take notes and really it's all in the setup before you even go in the house or you know, unless they're just ushering you in, but uh letting them know what your game plan is. You know, I'm I've got my estimate here, excited to walk through this. Let's let's start in the kitchen. And once we walk through everything, I'm gonna take some time at the end to take some pictures, take some extra measurements, but I really want to spend the first 30 to 40 minutes chatting with you and getting into more detail about this scope. Um and really at that point, it is you're responding to you're just responding to their uh input at that point. Yeah. And so figuring out how you do that is really a everybody kind of has a different way that they sell. Yep. Um but it's really at that point it's reactive and having the reps of how you deal with certain questions or how you deal with certain objections um is really gonna come with time. So I have a hard time kind of like distilling that.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah. Well, and I think one thing we talked a lot about last week on the podcast was we are trying to be their guide, understand their vision, and merge together that what they want and their budget to see if those line up and if we can fit lower their wants, if their budget is lower, or increase their budget if their wants are higher, and find out where in the middle those merge. That's our job to guide them down that path, to turn over every stone, to help them think about stuff they haven't thought about, to really be their guide on the path to a renovation. Um that means we're not coming in as a note taker. That's why we did the desk estimate. That's why we did all the prep work, that's why we wrote stuff up because I am not leading with my measuring tape. I'm leading with questions and understanding of their final vision. That's number one. James said a second ago, and one of our rules that we always coach on and require our guys is when you step into an estimate on site, I first tell the client, listen, let's talk through exactly what you want. And then once you we feel like we got a clear vision of what's happening, I'm gonna take a second by myself and walk through the house the second time. That's where I'm gonna get my photos and measurements. I'm not good at listening and doing at the same time. So if I'm taking measurements while you're talking, I'm gonna miss something. So let's have the conversation. I want to make sure I get it, and then I'm gonna go through and measure. I'm going to separate out the boring, non-connecting data collection part of the estimate into a separate time later. So, A, I do capture everything and they're not talking to me, and I forget to measure the kitchen floor, or I didn't count, take photos of the kit of the basement that we're doing because they started chatting with me. All that's being done at the end. But right now, first, first things first, walk me around what we're doing. Give me a vision. I see this. Oh, this is that wall you're talking about you wanted to take out. That makes sense. Yeah, I see the concern with that because that is sitting with this, that, and yeah. And you can start having those conversations of what about this? What about this? I see this. Show me this. We talked about your cabinets. How would you like this? And so we're getting their vision on that first walkthrough of the job. We're also adding value. We're making suggestions. We're, hey, you know, this is uh uh you do have a crawl space underneath here. So when we're talking about doing the plumbing, that wouldn't be an issue. It looked, you know, when I it comes in the house on the left side, I can tell when we came in uh from the water meter box. And so if we did X, Y, and so I'm I'm using my skill, my knowledge, and my thoughts to help them be like, oh, it would be cheaper to put the sink over here. I don't care where we put it, we can flip the kitchen either way. Cool, let's do it over this way. Let me lay that out. And I'm building value that not might not even necessarily be for my estimate, it's for them and their dream and the understanding what they're looking for. Um that's going in into that estimate. Also, I want to send a text message or an email the day before. Hey, looking forward to meeting you tomorrow at three. That's gonna save you from driving out there and also show them that you're thinking about the the next day. That that's pre-site estimate. Um showing up to it also. Uh I want you to really be assessing any changes from what we talked about for the desk estimate or that you'd given given me and what I thought. If I've presented numbers already, I'm going to be discussing any change of those numbers on that front first walk with them where we're understanding. When I'm like, oh, I didn't realize that that was an exterior wall that you want to take out. So I was thinking it was an interior wall. The pricing on that from the desk estimate, I mean, we're gonna double the cost of that, probably uh that line item. And so we're discussing that. We're talking about changes in that. So it's not a bait and switch, but we're having that conversation in person and really the on-site is not a fact-gathering or a fact-gathering mission. It is a dreaming together and continuing that date to where they're like, this guy gets me. This guy gets where we're going. He understands what we're doing. That's what we're trying to do on that, on that on-site. So when a client says, Hey, uh, I got a lockbox on the house, why don't you just go out there and and look at it? No, thank you. When when can I meet you out there? I'd love to kind of understand your vision for the place. Obviously, if they're like, hey, I need a paint carpet and a good cleaning, I can go out there and measure that and that's that get them a price. But they're they're gonna find a cheaper person for that. And I'm not gonna be able to sell our value to them for it for that project. Anything else about being on-site? On-site's pretty straightforward. It's not changing very much from how guys normally do it. It just it's implant it walking into an on-site estimate. If you do everything we talked about last week on the desk estimate, it feels so much better. Yeah. You you got you've got a map, you've got detail, you've got a relationship already with the person. Um, you know, it it you you know you did the the desk estimate phase well. If you walk in and the client wants to give you a hug when they first see you for the first time, like we're connected, they know me, they see me. It's oh good to see you. Uh, and and there's a relationship there that is being continued on that site estimate where we're just deepening the relationship and the understanding of what we're doing.

Finish Levels And Picky Clients

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah. I like to make sure I go into a site estimate with like a couple uh have you considered uh things. Yep. Like if and it you don't always need to pull them out. It's like if the site estimate for whatever reason has become kind of transactional, yeah, and it like uh maybe it's not going the way you kind of anticipated, having a couple of those in your back pocket kind of uh re-engages with the uh in their brain of oh, uh this guy's a collaborative one. He he wants to understand what the uh reason is behind the doing, and like that re-engages with that and gets some of those creative juices flowing. Because that's like those are the best ones when even though it takes more time, when you're sitting there with the person in their kitchen, you're like, have you ever considered this? Like, no, I I haven't. I figured that that would be like way too expensive. It's like it's really not that it's really not that different than doing what you're doing here. It's just it would open the space up differently. It would give you the it would give you the uh the separation of the rooms that you're wanting without taking away from making the room feel bigger. It's like, oh yeah, that solves both problems.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

It's like going in there with a couple of those butler's pantry or knocking the wall out, or hey, what if we did this? Or the I mean, I remember we have a ball pit or a garage door exterior wall where you can open it up and the back porch as part of the living, like all sorts of just fun ideas like that. Yeah, I think is is really good sales on that. Um one question I always like when I'm starting to trying to understand their their taste and finishes is uh, you know, we're standing in their kitchen and I'm like, so over that table, I'm guessing a chandelier. Yeah, that'd be great. Are you a I found it on uh uh Amazon.com light fixture person or restoration warehouse type light fixture person? Like where tell me about like the level of of dreaming that you're having for the chandelier. Oh man, I've I freaking love restoration warehouse, or I don't know what that is, but like I I want something like a statement piece. Cool, cool. Like, are you thinking we budget like a thousand bucks for that, five thousand bucks for that, 200 bucks? Like I can get you a chandelier anywhere on the spectrum. Like for you, where where would it fit? Yeah, I mean, I saw a couple that I like they're like 1,500. Cool. I'll put that in there. I'll line item that one out. I'm just trying to make sure that we're hitting the level of finish you're looking for. Cause once you do a$1,500 light fixture, it starts kind of going domino effect throughout the rest of the space. And I want to make sure that our budget's in line.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Um, one one of the last things that I'll do at a site estimate is ask the client to take me into a room that has most of the elements that would be uh existing in the renovation that we're doing. So like sheetrock and trim and tile and route lines, and ask them to show me areas that they're unhappy with. Yeah. And this helps me get a better uh barometer on like how picky they're going to be per trade. So you might walk through with somebody that they're like, you can see all these maladies in the sheetrock all over the place. And you're like, what do you think about this sheetrock? And they're like, it's good, it's fine, it's great. Yeah. It's like, okay, great. We probably don't need to go level five uh with the sheetrock so we can save money there. But if they're like up against the wall, like I really hate, like, see how you can see this seam and see how you can there's like this nail pop in the corner. It's like, okay, they're gonna be high, high detail on this. I hate the way this trim comes together. Oh, because it's a butt joint. Yeah, that's just just that's just wrong. Yeah. It's like and this is where you can actually start having conversations with the client, setting their expectations, not just about uh level of finish, but when they say like you can you could easily bait somebody into one saying one of those things, like this that's just like not the right way to do it. It's like it is a way to do it. It's called a butt joint. Everybody does it, but some people don't like it. So we could do uh we could do a miter, we could cope it so that you can barely see the you can barely see the the uh where the two pieces come together. Uh there's multiple ways to do it. That's the cheapest way, and then there's more expensive ways. Yeah. So like just getting not not just uh not just understanding what their level of expectation is gonna be, but also having the opportunity to start having some of the hard conversations that happen in the middle of the project or at the end when you're punching out and they're like, that's just wrong. That's not the right way. Yeah. You can get ahead of those things because you know those those things. So you can set you can set yourself up to start having some of those conversations in a way that's not combative, and you don't have to be on your heels. You can be in a position of power and knowledge, being like, I hear you that I don't like that either. Even if I do, I love butt joints, they're great. Even if I don't, like, yeah, I agree. I don't think butt joints are the best way, but that's what that's called. And it's a totally fine way to do it. It's just not high-end looking, which I agree with you.

Past Contractor Trauma And Trust

Revisions And Line Item Clarity

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah, well, one thing that I, if you don't know these, just look them up and memorize it. If you know and can explain the difference of level four and level five sheetrock finish drywall work, that will get you a lowering your clients' expectations and B, understanding their mindset. So when I'm like, listen, there's there's five different levels of finishing sheetrock. We can do level four or level five. Let me tell you the difference of the two. One's way more expensive, but this is why, and this is how it looks, and this is the other. Of those two, which one are more you? Like, like, are you looking level four where like that looks great? That's what the the if we look in your kitchen, that's what the walls are currently. Um, or are you like, I'm putting my head against the wall and I can see that there's a couple, a little bit of shading difference in the uh in the sheen of the paint because it wasn't a full level five, and you know, and start explaining that stuff and and just getting in their brain on like, yeah, I need that level five. Cool, good to know. I just want you to know when you compare my price with another contractor, he's giving you probably level four finish. So when my sheet rocks three grand more, just know that, right? And so I'm I'm setting those expectations, but also educating them and trying to trying to get the product that they want done in their house. Um, I think the other thing that happens on these side estimates that it it's a conversation I want to have either on the initial call, if I can get them on a Zoom initial call, a Zoom during the desk estimate, but a lot of times those are kind of expedited. So if by the desk estimate, I haven't asked this question, I ask it either. Hey, have you random question? Have you ever worked with a contractor before, done a renovation before? Yeah, actually, we did on our last house. Tell me about that experience. I want to know what their experience is of contractors, and because what's gonna happen, I think almost 99% of the time, I can't think of a time it didn't happen, where it's a complaint about contractors. And so this is twofold. Number one, oh, that's not good. They didn't, man, they didn't send oh that's that's terrible. I'm hearing them, they're justified in their complaint, and I'm saying that's not how we do things. Number two, I can start planting those seeds of the CEA in that conversation. So when they're like, Yeah, actually I did, it was good. The guy was fine. He he lived in our neighborhood and he was just a one-man show. Um, and that's when I start saying, Cool, did like when you say one man show and he was fine, like, did he have Gantt charts built? And you like you do all your selections before you start? And did you all have like, like, what was the level of detail that you liked and didn't like from that? They're like, Gantt chart. Tell me about what do you mean Gantt chart? Right. Like, I've got that question. I'm like, oh, okay, so that's we do that. That's kind of standard before we even start, we do that. And so I'm starting to plant some of those seeds of of our value add in those questions of their previous experiences. And if someone says, uh, I honestly, this is my first uh renovation, I'd say, What are your what are your fears of it? Because from the outside world, the the construction industry seems pretty scary. Um, what what are you concerned about? Like biggest concerns with coming into this. Sit down, let's have coffee. Yeah. What are you afraid of? But but literally, they will, I don't think I've ever had someone like, no, I'm not scared. It's fine. Like everyone's got something to say. And so I'm trying to understand their mindset coming into this so I can diffuse those issues and also start pitching the CEA. Uh uh, one thing I've said before, the CEA starts at the earliest availability to start talking about it. I'm not trying to get them there. I'm not trying to during the intake call have them sit down for a client engagement meeting. I'm trying to pitch it to do it at the right time. And something I said the other day, the the CEA is the meet the parents moment, right? I'm trying to marry them. I'm trying to get into a signed government document relationship by them signing my agreement. I'm asking them to marry me by signing the contract with me to get to move forward. Every single date is leading to that spot to where they trust you enough and like you enough and have a game plan enough that this is the guy I want to commit to and give six figures of my dollars to. Um along that, there's a time to meet the parents. And once they meet your parents, they're like, oh, this is the guy I want. This is it. And the meet the parents is that CEA. And so if you ask for that on the first date, they're like, You want me to sit down for an hour and talk about how you do renovations and what my your expectations are? Bro, I need a number first. Like we're we're in different, different area codes right now. Like, this doesn't make sense. Um, if you if you're starting to plant those seeds, when I'm on site now and I'm talking to them about that, that's when I say, hey, listen, I'm gonna revise this and I start pitching my next couple steps. I'm gonna get this revised, I'm gonna sit down, look at this stuff, get it, get it written out. What we usually like to do next is I'm gonna have a Zoom call with you where we can sit down. I'll come back out to your house and we can sit. We're gonna review the revisions that I've done from the last desk estimate, or maybe they haven't seen a desk estimate. I'm gonna put the numbers together. It's gonna be around the ballpark of what we discussed. I also have something called our client engagement agreement. It is a six to seven page document that we really kind of show you behind the scenes of how we operate. If we we've learned if we educate our clients of exactly how the renovation goes, it's a lot smoother and more enjoyable of a process. So, what we do is we set expectations of what you should and shouldn't have of us. And we actually honestly want to share our expectations of you as our client. We feel like we're on the same page with that. It's a really enjoyable process on both sides. So if you would have time, maybe an hour that for us to sit down, go over this estimate, and also I'll show you all that. That's a really good thing to do before you make a decision who you're going with. So you know if we're a good fit or not. You pitch it like that. They're like, yes, let's let's do that. When can we do that? Um, if you're doing it, if you've done the initial, the desk estimate, the revis the desk estimate uh review together. Now I'm on site, I'm on my third or fourth date. We're buddies. I've I've understood their last renovation. And I'm like, hey, listen, let's do a CEA. Let me show you kind of what you should expect from with us. That's when we're selling it. That's when we're pitching. And I'm trying to do it in the next meeting. If I had, I would say 85 to 90% of our CEAs are in that next meeting, if not the five, the meeting after that, right? Like site visit, I'm gonna do a CEA and presentation of numbers. If I, if it's not quite there, if the relationship isn't deep enough, I might show them the numbers and do the walk through the revised estimate and at that time say, hey, if this looks good, the next move is a CEA. Obviously, like we we have one that we're in Lexington, we're doing like a 10-house neighborhood tiny house. It's it's this big project. It's totally different, right? Because we don't have somewhere to walk, we don't have the, but we're still following the same protocol. It's just there's more space in between. We're the CEA is more of a letter of intent, as well as where our initial phase is a hundred thousand dollar phase that we've broken down into four different phases one A, one B, one C, one like there's you can this stretches out to large projects. And then also on the small projects. My CEA is still happening, it's just gonna be a 20 minute meeting. Not an hour-long meeting. And I'm going to review the quote. I'm going to say, hey, this is the major, major high points of the CEA. I hit the things that are going to pertain to them. Obviously, if it's a$5,000 job, they're probably not financing it. We don't have to hit that section. It's not going to be months. The Gantt chart's going to be two lines on it, right? Like the small jobs are still going to have all the same things. It's just really quick to cover, but we still want to cover all that stuff. All right. So we are on the side estimate. We've done it. We've had these conversations. We've set ourselves up. I am making sure that I've got on my calendar when I'm right rewriting this estimate and when I'm going to meet with them again. I this is so much more important on this round than the last round to try and do a Zoom call or an in-person to cover this estimate. Are you 100% of the time when you're doing that with clients? After the side estimate, are you 100% of the time getting on Zooms with them? Or are there times that you don't? Like No, it's it's zoom, it's Zoom or in person. Yeah, 100% of the time to review those numbers. Again, this is this is our, you know, you test drove the car. We've done everything. You really like it. You like everyone. Hit me with the bottom bottom line. What's this going to cost? Right. And so we want to be there to navigate that conversation. Like we've said so many times. I want to be present for positive and negative reactions. Um, I want to explain why prices are what they are. I want to uh talk through the variable numbers that we don't have answers for yet. Um, I really want to show my value in that as well as the laying out the next couple steps. Um, so before we leave, we're setting up that Zoom call in person while we're in person. We're saying, hey, let's have a time to review this. I want to run through this, but I always have a ton of questions instead of you know paper cuts of with text messaging and calling. Let me just gather them all. We got time for a Zoom tomorrow. We can sit down. Uh, I'll show you what I've got so far and ask the questions and really kind of refine this down to almost, almost uh, you know, perfection, ready to go. Um, so we're setting that up before we leave. All right, revising that estimate, James. From a desk estimate to a side estimate, this is where we get high detail. And again, that's that's new stuff, uh, not new stuff from all of our podcasts. We are defining the desk estimate into a high detailed estimate. We're okay with round numbers for things we don't have numbers on yet, but we want higher detail on the on the line items, and we want this to be as as accurate as possible. Um, tell me, let's talk about the line items. Um, I think one thing that is super important is I want one line item per thing that's happening, right? I don't want master bathroom, demo, uh cabinet, tile floor, new shower, toilet,$22,000. I don't want one line item for a bunch of stuff together because I might have one person doing demo and someone else doing my tile, someone else doing my cabinets, and I need one line item to assign out to someone and one line item to explain what they're paying for for that one thing. Um, I want these clearly written to where the clients, the crew, and me two months from now, remembering back after I have 17 other conversations with 17 other projects. I want all three of us to be in line by what the detail on that estimate, right? So that line items are written for all three of those audiences: the client, the my subs, and my labor guys, as well as myself in the future or my project manager in the future. We need to have a a the Bible is that estimate and how it's written, and we're all abiding by it, and it we're all agreeing to it.

SPEAKER_00 27:10

Biden. So the way that I'll build out all of my line items has a lot to do with the Gantt chart. So, like you might have uh you might have paint, and that's like, oh, we're just we're gonna paint everything all at the same time. Well, not necessarily, because once I get I'm not gonna paint with my flooring in, I'm gonna paint, then I'm gonna install the flooring, and then I'm gonna install the quarter round to hide the reveal between the baseboard and the floor. So then the quarter round needs to be painted. So I'll break that line item out separately. So that's just an example of when you're following, when you know that your scope is being translated into a Gantt chart in the software. Plumbing.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

We got rough in and trim out. Those are two mounts. Separate line items, even though the plumber said, hey, 15 grand for all of it, cool. I'm gonna go seven here and eight here.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah, yeah. So when you build it, when you break them out like that, that's gonna tell you really how many line items you actually need. But within those line items, I always build it out first with scope.

unknown 28:21

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

And uh it's scope, exclusions, and inclusions, or scope and notes. So depending on questions or um, rarely do I have scope, uh, exclusions, inclusions, and notes. It's just it's all it's too much. But uh intuitively, if you've been doing this uh a good amount of time, you know the things that you want to make sure that they understand that this doesn't include this. Yeah, this does not include this. If we're painting everything, it does not include your cabinets. Or not quoting painting your cabinets, it's different. So uh scope is like the dry, uh boring um so like uh sheetrock. Scope install sheetrock or you know, half inch sheetrock on uh uh and depending on the how much you're actually doing, you get you can get super detailed, like we're doing the four walls in the kitchen and the ceiling, and you give out those actual this many boards or this much square footage. Uh the scope is just super dry. We're installing this many boards of of sheetrock in these areas. Estimated 48 boards, estimated 48 boards, uh tape, mud, finish, ready for paint. Does not include uh exclusions, would be we're not doing green board. We're not we're not priming, we're not priming, we're not doing green board, we're not doing what's that cool new baseboard effect that they have like the uh inset. It's like a they do like a schluter strip at the bottom of the sheetrock, and then the baseboard is like not a baseboard, it's actually sheetrock. Um so those are like inclusions and exclusions, but the scope is the dry part, and then everything else is providing information for the crew, yourself, the client. Um and those I really I don't I want as I want as few line items as possible because it gets it can get very uh overwhelming. Yeah, but you need enough to actually there is a right number and like your scope is gonna tell you that. And part of it is thinking through the entire project. And this is on airplane.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

James is learning how to use phones still. This is his first phone.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

When you're walking through the project in your head, sometimes it's laziness and you don't break it out the way you should, but you know how you should break it out. I need to break this line item because I'm gonna install this here, but then we're gonna wait, and then we're gonna do this here. And you need to go ahead and do that because that's gonna make it read correct. And then when you're in the project and you're invoicing or you're having to assign crews out, it's going to make so much more sense to everybody if you break it out correctly on the front end.

Presenting Price Without Apologizing

SPEAKER_01 31:22

And when, you know, one of the things we do during uh client engagement agreement is we tell talk to the client and say, Listen, your job, I know we've discussed stuff. Your job as the client is to review the scope and understand everything that you want done is on there. And if me and you walk the house and it while we're walking it, you said, also I need a new roof. And I say, Cool, we we we can do that for you. And I forget to put a roof on that quote, does that mean I'm gonna do it for free because we discussed it? No, it doesn't, uh obviously. And I always use that example because that's absurd to expect a$20,000 roof to be put on your house because you mentioned it, right? And so I say, Listen, so if it's not on here, I don't have money budgeted to pay someone to do this work. So even if we've discussed it, I need you to read through this quote and make sure everything that you expect is on here and be a Karen, be annoying and say, Clark, can you also add this sentence on here? I would love that. More clarity the better. I'm giving you full permission to be a Karen on this. Like, like go at it and and and help me refine this because I've I've put my best effort into this, but that doesn't mean I'm perfect and I could have missed something. And if I forgot to put something on here, if you asked me to do a roof and I didn't put it on here, there's gonna be a change order halfway through the job for that roof. So I want to make sure that everything is captured on here that we've discussed, and that's your responsibility as a client. And so when we get through it and we're halfway through the job, and we forgot to put a countertop granite line item because I didn't know if they wanted quartz or granite. So I've just never put the line item on there when we're doing their kitchen. And it turns out we don't have a line item for countertops. I can say, oh shoot, there is not a line item for countertops. And they say, Well, you knew we needed them. You're right, I did. And that's why I needed you to review it and be my second set of eyes on these because it's not on here. I don't have money budgeted for it. I'm so sorry, but it's gonna have to be a change order, right? But we've had that conversation ahead of time. So the detail, I say all that because what you're when you're talking about the line item detail, it needs to be detailed down to where a client can read it and understand it in layman's terms. And it's detailed enough that I can say to the crew, you are not getting paid fully because you didn't do all of this. And let me show you what that means. It's not paint the house, it's paint wall, ceiling, and trim all one coat. I'm doing an eggshell for the walls, semi-gloss for trim, flat for ceiling, like all of that stuff I'm gonna put in there and have it on there. So the crew has directives that they can't say, well, we sprayed it all flat. Uh, you said paint it all white. So we did that. Well, you you think I want flat trim? I don't know. You didn't specify. Ask me that, right? And so now I'm paying and he's paying, and who's gonna pay for this to be repainted all uh all you know, the entire house? Uh so it needs to be all three audiences, meaning the client can understand it, read it, and say, yes, this is everything I want in my house. The crew can read and say, I know exactly what you want from me, and I can read it in the future, or my project manager can read it, or a project manager takes it over and he understands what's supposed to be done. What this is where we we pick up efficiencies. When you lose money as a contractor, it's because what the client, what me and the client discuss is gonna happen, and what me and the crew discuss what's gonna happen are two different things. And the dollars between those, the crew thought they were just painting the walls. I told the client we're doing walls, trim, and ceiling. I'm locked into this quote. Uh, I'm charging the client 10 grand, I'm paying the crew eight, and they say, Well, if you want me to do all of that, I need at least 12. So I'm now out four grand that I should have made, but I the client I already told we were doing all that. So I'm stuck in the middle. And this is where the inefficiencies happen on estimate writing. And if you don't have your paperwork in order to where your crews are held to the same uh level of expectation that we're promising our customer. So, all of that to be said, the detail is so important and it's an art. I mean, you can you can take 12 hours to write an estimate. What you need to do is really learn the high notes and the low notes, what we need to hit, what we don't have to hit, what can be vague uh at this point um before we actually start swinging a hammer. Um and all of those line item details that James is talking about, once you spend time writing that out, save it as a preset. Create a preset job template in your in ProStruck 360 software. And that way, every single estimate that you have, we've got all of the line items spelled out on it for the electrical rough in and trim out. And all of the details and questions are already sitting there. And I don't have to type the line out again. I just use my presets. All right. Um, I think one other thing when we're talking about revisions of this estimate. We did the site on site, we're back revising the estimate. Speed matters at this point. We need four, I want a 48-hour max turnaround from site visit to delivery. This is when the clock's ticking and they are excited. They want to know if they're gonna be able to afford it. And there is this tension that the client has in their brain waiting for your numbers. So I'm not gonna take three weeks to get back to them. I'm going to try and be 48 hours. Obviously, if it's a$500,000 addition, I'm probably not gonna turn that out in two days. Um, I might need some time. But the truth of it is you're probably gonna sit down and spend two hours on it. And so why not go ahead and plan that now instead of next week? Um, the emotional peak is right after the walkthrough with clients. And that's our window to get that yes and get them to say, you know what, I'm gonna do that. I'd rather go with you guys. I love connecting with you. Distance from that connection that you made on the on-site walk where you're caring about them and going, we want to keep that momentum going. And if it's a week and a half later, James, yeah, you were the one. You drove that, you drove that gray truck, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember you. That's not what we want when we're doing the when we're talking through the revised estimate. We want them to come come off the emotional high of being excited about working with us on the walkthrough, straight into the review of the estimate, straight into the CEA, straight into signatures.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah, like, oh yeah, James, I remembered you. I loved you. I loved your eyes, I loved your countenance and the way you carried yourself. Like, that's what I'm expecting.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

That's what you hear most of the time. Yeah, that's amazing, man.

SPEAKER_00 37:35

Yeah, congrats.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

Thank you. Um the presentation of this never called email for an estimate. We've said that a hundred times.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

What if, what if you took your foot completely off the gas at this point? You're like, and here it is.

SPEAKER_01 37:52

And here's the estimate. Good luck. Uh, you seem cheap. I'm sure you're not going with me. Uh, we're gonna lead with the outcome, not the line items, right? We are not, we we're gonna talk through the line item, but when they are, when we're discussing this, I am constantly bringing them back to what like what I heard from you during our during our estimate was you really wanted X, Y, and Z. You really like the the way you're talking about it in that photo you showed me, I feel like that's not lining up with what you're wanting me to do on this estimate. Uh, and so I'm trying in that estimate call on the Zoom, in person, whatever it is, I'm not trying to explain my dollars and why they should pay me. I'm not justifying my estimate. I'm trying to talk about the end result of the end of the project. That's what the estimate discussion is. So this wouldn't get us there. I know, like we've cut a lot of stuff out of this. I mean, all of the all of the molding that you're gonna do and the hidden door that you're gonna do and all that, like that's all been cut out. But I feel like this other spot when you're going with the three and a half inch baseboards, you're gonna be really disappointed. Like, that's not a big spend to go up to six inch. Like, what if we do that? I feel like that's kind of at least gonna get you some more of the nicer trim look. Uh and so I'm talking about like the final looks and the differences of the two. And let me show you a picture of the two different types of baseboards in a house.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

Yeah. Um, like I want you to be able to do this project, but I also want you to be happy with it. Yes. Yeah. And doing it the cheapest way you can do it's not gonna make it that way for you.

CEA And Getting The Signature

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Could we sacrifice two grand from the countertops that you have to have and put that into the trim? It's not gonna cost any extra. I'm not trying to talk you into doing extra stuff with us, but I know like going from you know, this level to that level granite is not that big of a deal if you're okay with it. So we can really upgrade that. And I think you're gonna so they that it's it's the like like we like we've said before, it's the um uh like at a restaurant. It's the the I'm caring about you and what you're looking for and what I think if this was my house, how I would do it. And that takes time. And we don't have time. And what guys don't realize is this is the most valuable time you can have. This is your sales pitch. And so if I can take that time, take an extra minute and think through their eyes, think about what where they're going, leading with the outcome, not the line item or the price. That is how we really sell them on them being comfortable saying yes to us because we're thinking, thinking through that stuff. Um, we're never apologizing, we're never negotiating against ourselves. We're never, if someone says this is too too much, I'm not gonna say, okay, what if I cut a grand off this? What if we do this cheaper? What we're gonna do is change the scope, not the price. Right. And so if someone doesn't like the price, if we're out of their budget, no problem. That's okay. What we could do is what if we go LVP on the floors instead of hardwoods? Would you like it in a box? Would you like it with a fox? Yes. Would you like it here, there? Uh I need to find the gap when they say that seems high, or I got another guy that's gonna do it for 10 grand less. Uh at that point, I've found the one issue that they have. They everything else is just the dollar, right? And so at that point, I say, listen, I'm this is I use this every single time if it comes up comes up to price. I say I am going to be two grand, three grand. I might be, you know, I quoted you at 60. And if someone comes in at 56, 57, that might make sense because I'm gonna give you a lot better quality and service for what you're looking for. If I'm at 60 and someone comes in at 30, if we're not apples to apples here. If they come in at 50, we're probably not apples to apples here. There's no way I'm just there's not a$10,000 buffer in what we're doing uh for a$60,000 job. I'm not just a lopping profit on top of this. So either they're quoting you something that I didn't realize that I overquoted, or they're just skimming their estimate and hitting kind of the high notes, and they're gonna hit you with a bunch of change orders and they're gonna end up more expensive than me. But let's let's look apples to apples. Let's compare. And if someone can beat me on quality for that price point, love it. Go with them. Absolutely. But we are the best bang for your buck when it comes to construction. I'm just trying to get you the end result that you told me you wanted. Right. That's the discussion around dollars is I might be two, three, four percent more expensive than someone. I am not$30,000 more. That doesn't make sense here. That that's flawed. And I'll say that even if they aren't talking about other people's quotes, I'll tell them that when I feel like my number's pretty high for them. I'll say, listen, I just want you to know this is as tight as I can get it. I've worked these numbers down. If you find anyone to do it for less than this, I'd be very concerned because this is the best number I can do for the quality I know that you're looking for. Um, but that's that's part of the this seems too high or this is too expensive conversation. Yeah. All right. Um, the last part of this podcast is going into the CEA, getting the signature, land, landing that. This is where it kind of goes in a couple of different directions depending on size, right? Any job under six figures, we're gonna try to get signatures about this point. If it's over six figures, there's probably gonna be one or two more meetings. I need we might need to go into due diligence to figure out an architect. We got a bunch of different things that that might affect timeline and how quickly we can get that signature. All that being said, once we've done that site estimate revisions and we've presented it to the client, the next goal is to do a CEA as quickly as I can, however, I can, because there's not much more we can do than keep harassing them. Any any news? Oh, you're waiting for two more bids. Okay, great, talk to you later. Hey, did you get those two bids yet? Okay, cool. Hey, I was wondering, you know, I found a flooring that you might like. You want to talk? No, okay, cool. All right, but so there's not a lot to do in this no man's land rather from presentation to decision making. So I like to falsify some reasons to have those points of contact. Um, number one, the big one, this isn't false, but the big one is the CEA. I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to get them on that call. Um, another one is hey, I think we get some clarity on some of these questions that you had. If I could put together a um Gantt chart and kind of a selections workbook for you, uh, I do those usually in pre-construction, but I might go ahead and build a Gantt chart and present that to them. Um, hey, this is, you know, I was looking at your project and I have some other major projects landing. We're we're pretty busy of a company, uh, and I want to make sure we have space for you. So I went ahead and did a Gantt chart for your project. This is something if we could start, and I know that they want to start in May, whatever. If we can get started by May, I could get this in. It'd be perfect spot on our calendar. I just want to make sure I reserve you that spot um because I don't want to give your space away because I'm really excited about your project. Um, here's a Gantt chart about that. If we started in May, I'd see us being done by August 1st and X, Y, and Z. And then that's that's some of the filler that you can do between presentation and signature decision. Um, but we're trying to keep that relationship, keeping in touch, trying to get them to the CEA. Um, and most importantly, what is the reasons they're not signing today? And what is the timeline and What information do they need to sign? Right. So um that's not even a bad question to ask in the right setting. Correct. Yep. Like, hey, next moves for me is signature and we go into pre-construction and I start building all this stuff out. Is that where you're at right now? Or what else do you need to get comfortable with that decision? That's absolutely uh great to say to a client. There, there is no need to be scared to ask for the sale and and and be scared to close. I mean, that's that's what's expected. I mean, we're gonna keep dancing, or are we gonna mess around? Good edit. Uh I think that's we're not burning bridges, we're not looking desperate. We're every single time that I'm trying to get a signature at that point, I am making the calendar the enemy. Hey, I just want to reserve spot for you. I want to make sure that we got you. Uh I know that this was important for you to get going because your mother's moving in with you and at the end of the year. Um, I want to make sure we have space for you. So understanding why they're not saying yes. And this happens a lot. This is a big one. It seems stupid, but I've talked to so many guys. I sent an estimate. I don't know, I don't know if they're gonna go with me or not. Well, why wouldn't they go with you? I don't know. I don't know. I just we'll see. You need to know. Like that's part, that's part of the sales process. I got to know them. I've built some equity and trust with them. And so at this point, I can say, hey, listen, what you know, it sounded like you were in a rush, and then I sent you the quote and it kind of stalled. What's help me understand what's going on? Cause I want to put some time into this. But also, if you're kind of pausing the idea, like help me understand where you're at. Those are great questions to have and to ask because that's gonna get okay, what's my next move? Should I keep harassing them? Did their aunt just die? And so they're not like give them three weeks because they're going to a funeral. Like, what's what's happening? Yeah. So then I can follow up accordingly. That was a lot. Anything to add to that closeout, James, for the CEA, getting the final signature. Um what what else would you be covering at that point?

Deliver What You Promise Plus Coaching

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Um, well, we've talked a little bit about the CEA. I don't think we need to jump into that. Yeah. Um I think if we haven't already the biggest parts of the CEA being like the highlights and like what are the sales points of it, being like how do we invoice, how do we do the benchmark walks, whatever those whatever your big sell points in your CEA, however you are distinguishing yourself from everybody else, those are uh springboards for your final sales approach. Yeah. Um I think the the hard thing is making sure that your CEA is prepped to where you can honor everything that's in it. Yeah. Because you don't want to start this project, you've talked this big game, and then one week in something's already happening that you said wasn't gonna happen, massive issue. That's a massive red flag for your client. Um, they might pause the job on you. They might get so it might, if it's a big job, clients will be like, hey, we're not too deep into this yet. We need to pause. We need to rethink what's going on here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

So if we promised two emails a week and great communication and we walk it every Monday, and then they sign the contract and it's been three weeks and they haven't heard from anybody. Whoa, whoa, uh bait and switch. These guys are promising stuff they're not doing. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's it, especially like it's so reasonable on our side. Yeah, we're paused. We're, you know, I told you that we ordered all of those materials and and two things were backlogged, and it's going to be delivered in three weeks, and that's when we're going to start. And my side, that makes a lot of sense. Out of side, out of mine, I'll talk to you in three weeks when we're ready to go. For the client, they're like, Any news or update on that delivery, or what are we doing, or is there anything else I could be doing, or why aren't you doing like all of that's running through their head for three weeks? And like, these guys aren't who I thought they were. Yeah. Right. And so it's it's doing what you say you're gonna do. Let's when you start and join with the coaching side, we start with giving you all this paperwork uh with the CEA and the sub sub-agreements. And the first thing we do walking you through the CEA is we want to edit it to what you can promise. I don't want you to promise stuff you can't. So take some some line items out of there until you're ready to promise the stuff that you know you can deliver on. Cause only thing worse than not having a CEA is having a CEA that you don't deliver on. And so if I'm not, if I'm promising I'm gonna do stuff or setting expectations that I'm not meeting, I'm killing my ability to get referrals. I'm killing my reputation. And I'm most likely setting myself up to lose money because they're gonna start saying I'm not holding my end up of the contract. Yeah. If you want any of this stuff, if you want our CEA, if you want our sub paperwork, if you want us to help you walk through this and create a process for you, go to contractorcuts.com, set up a 30-minute Zoom call with me. I love to chat with you, hear about it, tell you about our partnerships and what what's involved and what's included and the cost. What's funny is I talk guys out of coming into coaching and I play a game plan. I talked to a guy literally last week that I he was starting this company. I was like, listen, this is the best move for you. You're doing XY and Z. Why don't in three months we get you going on foundations program, we're gonna get you the paperwork. I want you to get XY and Z in place before you actually come into coaching. Why don't we launch into coaching if we can get these things done, turning into the new year, you come on the retreat and do coaching then? So I talked about it starting with coaching because he wasn't ready for it. He needed some other things in place. So for us, it's a long-term relationship. I want, I want you here in 10 years. I want to be on your board, helping you out, growing your company 10 years from now. And so when you have this initial call with me, we're just game planning what's the best move for you. I don't care about making a dollar today if I if if we can partner for the next 10 years. So trying to figure out what fits best, what are your needs, what can we help you with? What do you not need help with? Let's lay that out and figure out if we can we can be an assistance uh in any way for you. All right, contractorcuts.com, pro struct360.com. Come back next week. There'll be another great podcast. I promise. Bingo. Thanks. Talk to you guys later. Bye. Bye.