The Contractor Operating System Step 3 (Part 3): Delivering a 5-Star Client Experience on Every Job

In this part of Step 3 in The Contractor Operating System, we shift from crew quality to jobsite execution and client experience — because great work alone isn’t enough.

Most contractors don’t lose money because of bad craftsmanship. They lose it because of missed expectations, late decisions, unclear communication, and emotional change orders.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to:

• Manage jobsite phases so small issues don’t become expensive problems
• Prevent last-minute changes from wrecking your schedule
• Reduce tension around change orders
• Protect your timeline and margins through structured client communication
• Create a renovation experience clients actually enjoy (and recommend)

This is about running projects in controlled phases instead of chaos — finishing strong, protecting your reputation, and getting off the job faster so you can move to the next one.

If you want fewer surprises, fewer awkward conversations, and more five-star reviews, this is the system that gets you there.

Struggling to grow your contracting business? The Foundations Program is designed to help contractors break free from the chaos and build a business that runs smoothly. You’ll get a customized training program, 1-on-1 coaching, and access to a full paperwork database—including contracts and the Client Engagement Agreement. Join the Foundations Program today! 🚀

Go to ProStruct360.com or s

Have a question or an idea to improve the podcast?
Email us at team@prostruct360.com

Want to learn more about our software or coaching?
Visit our website at ProStruct360.com

Transcript

Two Products: Build And Experience

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad, and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.

Why Feelings Drive Referrals And Price

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome back to Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner. And I'm James McConnell. Thanks for joining us again this week. So today we are doing part two of product quality. Last week we talked about um how to onboard subs, how to manage them, kind of the the front end, and we use the metaphor of a grocery store. There's two things that a client comes in for. They are buying the product that you're giving them, the milk off the shelves. And the second product that uh that we're actually selling is their experience of receiving that. So in construction, they you might be selling them a kitchen or an HVAC unit or a new apartment building. What the actual product that you are in charge of as a general contractor is, yes, we need to deliver that really well. That needs to be a nice quality product that they leave with, but the experience of receiving that is the secondary product. Uh so we dove deep into the actual product that they're getting, um, how to get onboarding your vendors and your subs and your crews, how to manage them, how to manage your week, um, uh and getting them started, uh, all of that stuff last week. So if you missed that one, go back and listen. It's a really good one. Um, the second part today is the second part of product quality, which is the client's experience. Uh, and so we're talking about the job site management, how to manage the job sites, how to set the client's expectations, and then how some really key features that we're we're we're zoning in on today is our benchmark walks. And we're gonna talk through what that means and what that looks like, but how to do them well, um, to where A, we're saving ourselves money, B, we're keeping our reputation up, and C, we're getting off the job quickly so we can start the next job. So it's a really good way to do things. Um, and it's something that in our companies we've honed in on a lot over the last year or two on doing these really well and making them kind of a key feature on our estimates and and on our job sites uh as we walk. So we'll we'll dive into that in a second.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

To to your point, and I did I tried to watch some of the Super Bowl. I saw one commercial.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

And I don't agree with this, but I don't remember what the brand was. But it was a car, and it said uh the measure of a vehicle is how it makes you feel. Which is probably true. They probably spent millions of dollars on studying, you know, uh how people purchase things. And I think this is about how people feel through the process. That's right. And the more and the better you make that experience, the more, the more good feelings, the the more people will pay for what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yes, and more importantly than even pay is that they're going to sing from the from the hilltops your your name to their friends, family, neighbors, all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Yeah.

The Case For Benchmark Walks

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Were you gonna sing from the hilltops? I was gonna say, I'm in love, I'm in love, and I don't care who knows it. But I mean that and I've said this before. If they get like they don't love the tile backsplash, but it's fine, it looks good, and everything else in the kitchen's good. And this is a I probably would have picked this differently. The product that they received is is 95% perfect, but not a hundred percent. But the qua the quality of experience is a hundred percent, they're gonna suggest you and call you again. Yeah. If they if you flip-flop that and the quality was 90% and they had to call and they didn't know when you're showing up, and the guys were late, and you took three extra weeks when there was no reason to take like we got it done, but it was like going to the dentist. Yes, but the kitchen is perfect, they'll say, Hey, happy about the kitchen. I wouldn't use those guys, but yeah, I'm happy with the kitchen, right? And so we what we want is the reputation builder um and exit quickly and not costing us a bunch of cash to make them happy, but actually the first time doing it really well. And so that's what we're talking about today. Um most construction problems don't come from bad work, right? That's that's kind of the main key. They're coming from late decisions, from changes happening. Um James, what's your experience with this? Don't talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Um the best intentions get derailed very often, and so uh you need to have uh benchmarks to check in along the way. How are we doing this? And more importantly, when we get to a point in the project where beyond this point, changes are going to either cost me or the client significant significantly more than if we deal with it right now. Yeah. So it's really not a question of is it are fixes going to cost money? Yes, they're costing somebody money, whether it's the crew with their time and opportunity costs, whether it's you have to pay the crew because whatever miscommunication between you and the client, or it's the client because they know they're asking for something different. Changing something's going to cost somebody money. The question is, how do we mitigate that exposure? And benchmark walks is the best way to do that. And in doing that, you're also it's a twofer, you're protecting the client's experience by making sure. Yeah, construction is is chaotic. There's things that are constantly changing, but if we can plan for the chaos and find little spots where we're checking in, getting signed off by the client and getting their blessing, the experience is going to follow.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

There's really three different areas that you're gonna lose money, and this is eliminating two of them. Last week we talked about the first one. The first one is I just hired a bad crew. The guys just sucked, and I gotta uh they bailed, they screwed the job up and bailed, and I gotta cover it, right? That that's number one spot to lose money, reputation, and time on the job. If we onboard them well and do everything we talked about last week, you're really, really minimizing that risk on those. The other two spots, 66% of the issues come up from two different spots. One, your personal lack of knowledge of what should be happening. And two, lack of communication between you and the client to where they thought one thing was happening and you thought something else was happening. Right. So the quality of the crew, your lack of knowledge of, oh, I didn't realize I had to acclimate the hardwoods in the in the house. I didn't, I just didn't know that. Or number three, the client wanted A, and you thought they wanted B. Your estimate was written vaguely about this. You do B, and they're pissed off and want you to do A, and now slowing us down, costing me money, right? And and so those are really the three spots that we get caught with losing cash and losing our reputation.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

And this is trying to eliminate two of them. And and just to say ahead of time, the benchmark walks do not eliminate the need to prepare ahead of time. This is an extra layer of protection. This is the overkill. This is going to push you over the edge from being good to great if you can stick to it and put the correct benchmarks into each project. Because every project's going to be different in terms of what benchmarks are needed. You might might need to be creative with how you come up with your benchmarks.

Front-End Setup: CEA And Precon

Framing Walk Example And Costs

SPEAKER_01 7:40

And the best thing that can happen is the benchmark is waste is a wasteful time period and unnecessary. Like that means you're doing the job well, you communicated well, the uh expectations. Like that's great. If if the benchmark was like, yeah, it looks good, sign off, I'm good to go. It's like a doctor's visit where everything looks good, the tests came back good. Yep. Cool thing. All right. So starting with that, what is we kind of have a uh front-end benchmark walk, and then we actually have our true benchmark walk. So kind of the front end side of this is we have our client engagement agreement, which does a lion's share of the work in terms of expectation setting, making sure they understand, making sure they're looking at the quote. All the stuff we do during that is literally probably 80% of the heavy lifting is done during the client engagement agreement as to getting on the same page in expectations. The next is gonna be what we talked about last week: the pre-construction job checklist, making sure that we have all the questions answered, we know where everything's happening, the marching orders for the crews, work orders are on spot. During pre-construction, we have the Gantt chart laid out, and we're like everything in pre-construction that's happening right before the job after we get signatures is kind of the secondary making sure the benchmark of where we're at is happening. But once we start the project, once hammers are swinging, James, what are those benchmark walks? And kind of give me a broad explanation of what that is, why you're doing it, how you plan for it, kind of the walk me through the understanding that.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Clark, I'm happy to. Thanks. Um, so a benchmark walk. This is just a it's a pre-planned pre-planned point in the project, alliteration. To pause, to pause and assess what this this last phase uh was, and if it's up to the standard that you and the client both expect. Again, to your point, this should be and hopefully is a inconsequential meeting with the client. The client does need to be there. Um, but we stop, we look at the space together, we lock in the decisions before the next phase of the project starts. Because again, once the next phase starts in construction, it's going to be more expensive. Once you once you frame everything up, once you put, once you run your electrical and plumbing through it, it's going to be more expensive to do redo the framing. Once you put the sheetrock on, it's going to be a hell of a lot more expensive to read. Because then you have to come in with the electrician and the plumber and the framer, and the sheetrock has to be taken off and read. So it's an it's a cascade effect with construction.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

But what is the benchmark walk? So uh it's a the the plan point. Explain it to me like I'm a homeowner and I see it on my on my scope. Uh we got a benchmark walk. Give me an example of a benchmark. Okay. Benchmark.

Avoiding The Cascade Of Delays

SPEAKER_00 10:38

A benchmark walk. So a benchmark walk for this project is one of them is going to be after framing. We're we're reframing your primary bathroom, which means we have a new uh toilet room location. We have your shower stall with the niche and the curb and the bench. We have your new closet location. Everything's framed out. We haven't run any, we haven't done the plumbing or the electrical yet. Everything is just framed out. Now the benchmark is it's on the scope. We finished framing. Now we have a benchmark walk. We are going to come into the bathroom and we are going to walk in it like we're existing in the bathroom. We're going to go into the toilet room and pretend that we're sitting on the toilet and see what kind of distance we have on the wall. My husband's six foot five. I think he needs a little bit more room in here. This seems pretty kind of tight. Okay, well, this is what it is on the drawings. I think we could probably cheat another two inches. Like, would that be enough space? Are you talking more? No, I think two inches would be sufficient. Okay, great. This is gonna be another 250 bucks to move this. We already have this frame, we're gonna have to take this out, get new wood, blah, blah, blah. Totally understand, not a big deal. Easy. Easy. And the shower, the niche. Okay, this is uh this is the location. Can we make it a little bigger? Not a problem, not a problem. Actually, it's not gonna cost you anything because we don't have to reframe anything here, we just have to move these two studs out or these two blockings out, and not a problem. Because we haven't even put in the schluter, you know, the backing or anything like that. We're just at framing, not a problem. So you can see how the cascade effect of this, if you wait until tile and you're done tile, and they're like, this niche is really small. They're not gonna make that change because you're gonna tell them how much that's gonna cost, but they're going to be frustrated. Like, I wish you would have told me sooner. Yeah, I wish you would have made that more apparent to me. I can't blame you because I saw it and I I, you know, whatever. I just, you know, I'm not in construction. And and you, as the contractor, hear that and you understand their point of view, and you're like, I really wish we did. This was on the drawings, this is what we talked about, but seeing it on paper versus living in the actual space are two different things. We all understand that. And so that that's the tension we talked about in the beginning. Like, there's there's tension in those change orders, even if the client agrees and accepts them, it doesn't mean that they're necessarily going to be happy about it. That's right. That's right. So uh framing, framing has a benchmark. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Uh well and let me let me say one thing about that. The other side of not doing this benchmark walk is um the framing's in there. It's 11:30 at night. Sheetrockers are showing up tomorrow morning, and I get a text on my front phone from Miss Samantha that says, Hey, I think we need this wall to be a little uh the space on this by the toilet needs to be a little wider. Can we widen this wall? Well, sheetrock's showing up tomorrow morning. It's 11:30 tonight. I'm laying in bed right now. I now have an hour and a half of calling crews, getting people moved around. Can my framers get uh and it's it's causing me time, it's causing me money, it's cause like even though I can change order that 250 at that point. Uh they at least we caught it. But now my whole my sheet rocker that's supposed to start tomorrow morning. I'm now pushing them to Monday so I can reframe. Well, he has another job starting Tuesday, so we can't start mine on Monday because he had one right after us, and so that goes another week. And now the painter that was supposed to be there the following week doesn't have availability, so now he's pushed. So we've lost two weeks on the project because she called me at 11 30 the night before friend. Now I'd rather find out then than later.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Still good, still, still better than the other options. Yes. But you the cascade effect is not just money, it's time. And then I gotta redo my Gantt chart. So there's just like all of these things.

Benchmark Buckets: Before Things Are Hidden

SPEAKER_01 14:41

And during the benchmark, like, James, I don't even think about that. Thank like that's so great. Let's do that, right? And so you look like a really good contractor where she's calling you 1130, she's like, well, I gotta check everything he does. I'm gonna go through with the fine-tooth comb because I don't like this, and I don't like that uh all right, let's go look at and and so then it starts to become this nitpicky. Oh, this client's frustrating me, right? And so it's the uh the what the I mean, if you're listening to this and you're a contractor for more than a month, you've you felt what I just said. Um we're eliminating that. And the other side of it is they don't catch it. They frame and they put the tile in the niche and they're and they're saying they're like, Oh, I don't, uh, my sh that's a uh eight-inch opening. My shampoo bottles are 12 inches. Like it's I can't put my shampoo on that. Like this doesn't work, James. Well, we can slow down for a week and cost three grand to rip it out and retile it and all that stuff. Or you can pick a new shampoo, lady. Yeah. Well, and we're not only assessing what happened, what's happened, this also sometimes changes the client's mind of what the next phase is, right? And I don't know if I'm getting ahead of uh of you, but it's not just that niche looks great, but it's like, oh, you know what? The tile I picked out isn't gonna look good here now that we're looking at where that's laying out. Oh, what we did that, we can't really on that wall in the bathroom. I don't think we're gonna be able to let's let's change the swing of the door. Because if you look at it now that we're so we're the next phase or three phases down the road, we're already correcting because we're standing here thinking about that stuff at this benchmark.

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Yeah. And that's and that's like something that you can set up in the beginning of like when you're talking through the CEA, you know, we should this is the these are the areas where we want, if there are going to be change orders, we want to talk about them in these phases. Yeah. This is where it's going to be the least expensive time to execute change orders, and that's by design. Because we want to make we know that things change in construction. We want to make spaces for those things, and we want it to cost you the least amount of money possible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

I think one as well as when we're doing selections workbooks and trying to pick out all the materials. I might say on the framing, um, on the framing benchmark that we do, that's when you're going to lock in on what type of cabinet you want, whether it's a 28 or 32-inch cabinet vanity for the for the master bathroom. I we need to decide on that benchmark walk what size vanity, and then you got two weeks to pick one out for us to put in here. But like we're the selections workbook can also be tied to these benchmarks of all right, well, let's do this, and then we can see where that light fixture is going to be best.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

In in the event that your client, you like again, we're not going to we're not a slave to the rules that we create. The rules are supposed to work for us. So ideally, we have everything picked out. Yeah. But we all have been in that project. Like, I haven't been able to pick the cabinet yet. I haven't been able to pick the tile yet. Okay. By this benchmark, that's we need it absolutely at this point. Yep. Are we on the same page with that?

unknown 17:51

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

And you write it in the estimate underneath that benchmark. One thing I don't think we've covered is we're literally putting benchmark walks at zero dollar charges as line items in our estimates. Yeah. Right? It's a this is gonna happen between this phase and this phase. And that way I can put it on my Gantt chart when in our software. If you're assigning a line item out, you assign it to yourself. When you do that, you're picking dates and it's holding space on the Gantt chart for those days.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

So it's hey, Thursday and Friday, we should be done with framing by Wednesday. Let's not start the next phase till Monday. That gives us Thursday, Friday to assess this. Um, make any changes. Also, if the framing's running late, I got an extra day, but that's our buffered time. I'm not telling the client that. I'm saying, hey, we got a we got a benchmark walk here for Thursday, Friday. We start the next phase Monday.

Layout Lock: MEP, Drywall, And Paint

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

So that way we can walk it, we can look at it. But in that, I've got a line item that says benchmark walk post-framing. And then I can put the notes. This is where we need to pick out the final decision on these materials need to be made at this point or in the next week from this spot, but we need to look at these things. And it's assigned to me. And so I mark it complete. Hey, we've done this.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Um the benchmark walk. So to speak about it broadly, because again, there are there's definitely you you know as a as a contractor the areas that we're talking about. I think it's kind of intuitive, like when things get locked in that you're like, once we go past this, it's gonna be whatever. But there's kind of three buckets that these kind of live in. Your uh the first one is before things are hidden. And this kind of can kind of seem tedious because it's like before demo and after demo is uh both big spots. So the pre-demo being the uh the pre-construction walk.

SPEAKER_02 20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Right. And you could call that a pre-construction walk, you could call that the first benchmark walk, whatever you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

We talked about it last podcast. So it's where you where's the cut station? What are we doing with this? Where do we put the materials? How are the like how are we gonna access? Where is there anywhere in the house we can't go? All that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yes. Um, post-demo, that's when the walls get opened up. And this is something that you talk about during the estimation process, all your conversations with the client. There's certain things that we're not gonna be able to know until the walls open. Unless you're okay with us going into your home while you're living here, while we're waiting for permits to come in and we we cut some sheetrock out and we do some searching around. We could do that. We we could figure that out if you'd like. But typically we come in, we do the demo, and then we stop, we do all the demo. We do all the demo. Stop breaking it up into these little areas. If you're gonna break it up like that, your scope should look a lot different and it should be a lot more expensive because you're having a crew come in and you're doing demo here, and then you're stopping, and demo there, and then you're stopping. You should do all the demo at one time. And then everything's opened up. You've taken up the floors, and now you they glued, they glued the hardwoods down onto a slab, and taking that up has created all these little pockets of areas, and then there's also some natural dips that weren't uh apparent. Big crack across the slab. Big crack across the slab. You get the floors up and you walk it with the client. You say, so here's there's a lot of prep that needs to happen here. So that's something that we need to talk about. Looks to me about five or six bags of self-leveler. But all of these areas, you need to determine what is the how are we going to ensure that this is done the way it needs to be done so that we can move on to the next phase and not worry about the downstream risks.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

Yeah.

Final Systems And Sign-Offs

SPEAKER_00 22:26

So if it's a subfloor, let's what is what is the tool that we need to make sure that this is level, that this floor is completely level, that there's no low spots. You need to be able to assess that and do the actual work that it takes to verify that and the client sees it and the client signs off on it. Because if you're walking it later and they're like, This seems like it's like uh uh like a dip here. It's like, well, if we go back to the benchmark walk, I I don't feel the dip, but I'm not calling you a liar. We go back to the benchmark walk. We laid we laid the level. It was level then. I'm showing you the level now. It's level now. I don't know how else to you know, I don't know what else what else we need to use to verify this, but this this is level.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

So it gives you it gives you a place to stand when there's just a very subjective argument being levied on it.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Well, and at that point, when you're in that that post-demo walk, I can I can look down the wall and say, hey, just so you know, this wall is wavy. I don't I don't think it's worth the money to put. We can shim it, we can do some other stuff for you if you want. It's gonna take some extra time and money. Does that matter to you? And now the decision's theirs and they're saying no. If I look at it and make that decision, or don't worse, don't look at it and just have my guys go on to the next phase, then I'm to blame because it's wavy. Because I made the decision without them making the decision. Now they want me to fix it for no cost and all that stuff.

Renovation Realities And Client Choices

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yes. Um so before things are hidden. So post-demo, uh pre-demo, post-demo, subfloors and surfaces, making sure wherever we're working, the walls are plum, it's flush, the floors are level, everything's the way that we need it to be. And if it's not, we can have that conversation. The next bucket of benchmark walks would be before the finishes lock your layout. So before we paint, okay, you might have it might be you're doing flat walls, it might be texture, but whether whichever one that is, you want to walk the client with you. How is the texture here? I know that once we put paint on the wall, it might reveal some other things, but generally I want you to be nitpicky. How's the texture look here? How does the wall, you know, the the sheetrock finish, we're sanded, we're ready for primer, we're ready for paint. Is there any areas that look suspect to you? Let's address those now. How's the trim look? How's the trim look? Um post-paint. As soon as we're done with with that, we're we're looking at the paint. There might be some areas they want to address. What I'm trying to avoid is yeah, it looks fine. We get to the end of the project, and it's like, this ceiling needs another coat, and that wall needs another coat, and I don't like the texture over here. Okay, now we have the floors in and we're repainting, we're retexturing. It's costing us a ton of money, and it's this weird area of like, you should really be paying me for this. We already we talked we talked through this stuff. I didn't that's why you get the sign-off. That's why every benchmark gets a sign-off because you need something to stand on. And you can give in a little bit, like, hey, yeah, I I agree. That needs that needs some extra paint. This other area over here that you're talking about, I don't agree with what you're saying there. And you you you did sign off on that. Um so maybe uh I'll take care of this area for free. Would you would you be okay to pay me for 300 bucks to get this? I'm not charging anything on top. I just want to pay my guy. It's not gonna take us a ton of time. But he did the right thing, and you signed off on it. And if you want it painted, we can paint it. But it looks good to me. Um with uh electrical and plumbing, like heights of switches, locations of switches, where uh the shower head location, um HVAC vents and stuff, when you're walking through and these things are roughed in. Okay, now we have the opportunity to see how it how it's all laying out, the door swings versus the switch locations and all that kind of stuff. We can move things now at a very s at a very small cost, if anything. But as soon as the sheet rock comes up, again, we're cascading all of these costs are gonna just stack.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

Yeah, you want your shower head to go up three inches. I can do that right now. Later, I'm ripping tile out.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah. Like that's not it's not a small deal. And you've you've broken the perm the impermeable seal, you've broken that. So it's not just from here to here, we've got to redo it. We've got to take this whole thing out. And like the pan is now really compromised. So uh before finishes that lock the layout, and then before closeout, final systems, going through and making sure everything operates as it should. Testing the water, testing the electrical, testing the doors, testing the cabinets. Do any of these doors scrape? Like, be exhaustive and walk through very curiously about how they your crew did their stuff.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

And I think a lot of guys avoid this because they're trying to keep their head low and get out of there. And it's like, you you like the the tortoise and the hare, right? Like, just because like you can get on to the next phase doesn't mean you're gonna get out of there quicker. Yeah, like they're still gonna have an issue with that. They're just every time they get in the shower now, they're gonna be like, I freaking hate this shower. Right. And it's like you just spent 40,000 on that shower and you hate it because the shower head's three inches too low, and you're having to bend over because your husband's tall and he has a duck to get into the shower, like that sort of thing of reputation, like they love being in their shower versus every time they get in, they think about how bad it is. That type of thing changes your reputation in their brain. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:08

Um so those are those are kind of like the general, but um the the big idea is and there's not a there's not a right and wrong with benchmarks.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

It's pick throughout the project. Like you a lot of times post-framing is a great one. Sometimes we're not changing footprint, so I don't have a post-framing, even though we're doing a lot of framing, we're just reframing walls that were currently there. We just move things around or whatever.

Tools, Tests, And Documentation

SPEAKER_00 28:34

But e even then you can you put the level on the wall to show them we're level. Yeah we're level. You we all agree that this is level, so that there's not this uh this question in their head. They can they can mark that off. And when there's any issue down the road, we know it's not the wall, so what else could it be? You know. Um so ear doing this, doing these benchmark walks, we get early decisions. It's cheaper. Everything, the whole project becomes more flexible, and you're and you're calming your clients throughout the whole process because not only do you have this set up, but every time you do a benchmark walk, you're reinforcing the fact that you are in control of the situation. You're in control of the pace, you're in control of the decisions and making sure that everything's happening the way that you and your client are comfortable with it laying out.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah. And on a on a new construction, it's one thing. On a renovation, huge. It's huge for because I kind of referenced it earlier, but there are a uh a hundred things in a renovation that is being left imperfect because existing conditions. You're it's a wall that doesn't work, or it's you know, the floors are wavy, but and so every single one of those, if the client makes the decision to leave it, that's on them. They're not mad at you that you opened up a wall and the and the walls aren't straight. That's not your fault at all. That's not like cool. I that's let me make this decision. If you make those decisions, which oftentimes it's not me physically going there looking at it, making an actual uh thought-through decision to to keep proceed. Instead, it's my crew has a work order, they're just blow and go and get through it onto the next one. Great, we're done with sheet right, put the paint on the wall. If we have these benchmarks, the crews know it. They pull off, they're not on it, and we have those meetings with the client. The client's making the bad the negative decisions and they're appreciative that you're helping them, versus the other side of it of oh, I can't believe James decided to leave it this way.

Pricing For Time And Quality

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah. Now, really, when you're trying to think through what are benchmark walks, you really just need to think about is it what is it going to cost me at after this point of the project? No, and how is there something I can do to verify that it's done correctly? So, like a great example a little bit outside the box, get yourself an infrared reader. It's 200 bucks, maybe cheaper off Amazon. When you do your waterproofing for the shower before you put tile, you plug up the drain, you have your waterproofing, you put pour water in there, and then you shoot it with an infrared after it's been sitting there, and you show them there's no leaks, there's nothing's coming through the floor, nothing's escaping. And you even if that's not even s should be a question, you've uh you've uh uh you've calmed any fears about that. Because the the tile is like s one of the biggest risk systems that we're doing, and there are ways to make sure that there's not issues before we put tile on. Soon as you put tile on and you have to take it off. We all know it's like there's not a whole lot of repairs I can do. It's just you gotta rip it out and redo it. And that is a pain and it costs so much money. Your tile guy is not gonna want to do it. You'll have tile guys walk off projects more often than not because they're like, I I've never had an issue with that. What you're telling me doesn't make sense. If you want that done, you're gonna have somebody else to do it, and you owe me money. End of the and end of discussion. Um later decisions, if if we don't do these benchmark walks, it gets very emotional. It gets finger pointy. It gets uh he said, she said, there's nothing to really tie anybody into reality because it's it's I need to protect myself because you're obviously just protecting yourself. No. The benchmark walk gives us a spot to say, hey, we're on the same team before we move forward. Let's make sure we're both happy with how this is because I do not want to spend money fixing stuff that we could fix now. Yeah. Right? Cool. We're on the same page. Um this is huge for client experience. Uh fewer surprise surprises. Why didn't you tell us this? You're the contractor. You should be able to do that. This is construction 101, J. This is construction 101. The tension, the the tension with change orders. When you don't have that tension with trade change orders, you're building trust consistently with your client. And every time you do that benchmark walk, that's another opportunity. Just continue to build that trust. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

It there is a reality to what their house is and is gonna look like and currently is, and them accepting it is them accepting it, not James left it this way. Right. There's a big difference of that real like it it it is that way, period. Is it them accepting it and or is it James is the problem?

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah. Um don't wait for don't wait for punch. Don't wait for punch to address like the question shouldn't be could could we handle this in punch? It's how do we handle this before punch? Yeah. And like punch work is punch work. It is touch-ups here, it's putting on a knob, it's uh doing a door stopper, it's not repainting a wall. That is not punchwork. That is that is benchmark walk type stuff. So don't don't say we punch our projects throughout the project. No, you punch at the end. We do benchmark walks to make sure that we are in line and that we're not setting ourselves up for cascading issues down the road.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

I think it's also like there are times, it's like with your children, you let them come to conclusions even though you know the answer. And sometimes on the benchmark walk, you're doing that with your client as well. Like, I mean, like, what do you think we should do? And like, I know there's no way we're gonna rip this out. There's zero way we're gonna tear up your entire um foundation to re to move that line two inches. But letting them come to that conclusion is is what the benchmark walk is for. Yeah. Because it's like, I mean, we could tear it up. I mean, we're looking$10,000 to move that pipe two inches. What what are your thoughts? Yeah. Like duh, obviously, but we're we're lowering that tension. We're getting rid of me saying that this is how it has to happen.

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Yeah. Um sign offs. A benchmark walk is is great. Uh do it with a sign-off, a client sign-off is is really where the rubber meets the road. And it's not it's not a a gotcha or uh something to weaponize against them, although it could be those things if things get really really ugly. Um this is a a a memory anchor. It's hey, we did that, we did the benchmark walk, we showed you everything, you signed off on it. Um so this change this is a change order. Yeah. They don't have to be happy about it. And that's unfortunate, and hopefully that's not the um that's the exception and not the rule. But being able to point back and say, we've we set up spaces to make sure or we we set up these benchmarks to make sure that you were happy along the way. And I did the very best that I could. You have a different opinion now than you did then, and it's unfortunate because now it costs$1,500 when it was$200 before. Like that stinks.

Execute In Phases And Breathe

SPEAKER_01 36:18

An easy way to to document that and get signed off is emails. All we I mean, you can write out paper if you want to print something out and have them sign it, that's great. I I like just, hey, um you're gonna get an email after every benchmark walk of what we talked about, what we covered to make sure we're on the same page, and I need you to just respond back and like good to go. Yeah, that's it. So I'm gonna send them an email, benchmark walk on 310 for um post framing. As we discussed, this looks good, that looks good, I think we're good for sheetrock. We're gonna leave this, we're gonna leave it that way. Uh, if you're good, we're good.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

And then they respond and you they say, Yep, that's great. And then you go up to that URL, you copy it, and you paste that URL in your line item of that benchmark walk so that down the road, if there is an issue, you got the email. Click, there's the email. Yep, boom. Yep. Bob's your uncle. Um I don't really know what else to say. I feel like that's yeah, that's that's it.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

No, I I think this is this is how we I mean, this is part of also the the weekly invoicing that we do. Is our it's kind of the same of a mini benchmark walk of, hey, here's your invoice for the next week. This is where I think we're at. You agree with that? We good to go. It's not in person usually. It's not like walkthroughs that you're seeing in in in person. You want those benchmark walks, but everything we do is trying to get everything incremental. I want weekly invoicing. I want to walk it on Mondays. I'm gonna do this benchmark walk because I like I don't want to get over my skis where I've done$30,000 worth of work that we got to rewind. I want to get three grand of work that we can rewind$1,500 of it, and I can eat that if that's the worst case scenario. Yeah. Uh, and so getting these benchmark walks is how we maintain throughout the project. Now we've we could have gone in seven different directions with this this part of it, but we haven't covered benchmark walks, so we want to dive into it today. But there's a lot of other stuff with getting, you know, if we one of the things we talked about you doing on this podcast, but I'm gonna go ahead and hit it for a second, is when we have issues with crews during these benchmark walks, or we get there and the tile looks like crap and the client standing there. One of the things that we've we've talked about is getting crews trained and certified in different things. So the Schluter certification, the uh dial tile or Florin Decor does trainings. And so we will pay a crew to go get trained in something and get some sort of a certification or stamp on something. That way, if I'm standing there and the tile looks like crap during this benchmark walk, and I'm gonna have to bring a separate crew out to replace it, I can tell the client, like, listen, these guys are good. I've used them before. They're you know, they're certified through Florida Corps for in tile, so I don't know what happened here. Yeah, it's it's offsetting the I've done my due diligence. I just I didn't pick up a uh a guy in the Home Depot parking lot to do this. This is a legit tile crew, I don't know what happened. Yeah, but starting to build your um ammunition for during these walks to be able to say, okay, this is how we're gonna fix it. I'm gonna cover that. I don't like that tile. That's I mean, there's an inch drop-off during in that grout line from one tile to the other. That's I don't know how they could leave it this way. This isn't okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

And and there's a I think there's a lot of creativity it just in the benchmark walks. Like if you're about to do a benchmark walk for sheetrock or texture, maybe you do one area of, hey, this is how we're gonna do the trim. This is how it's going to look. We're not doing all of the trim in the house. I'm gonna show you what it looks like when we do a mitered edge, and this is how we have it in the scope, and here's this doorway, here's this window, here's this baseboard. How is that good? Is that what you want? Yes. And I get signed off on that before the dude runs and we have to fix all the joints. Yeah. And on top of that, your guy does it and you're like, that's how every that's how all the trim looks. Yeah. Well when we're done, that's how all the trim looks, right?

SPEAKER_01 40:14

I I think I can hear guys yelling through their um through their phones at us saying, I don't have time to do that, James. Like that's too much work. Uh I I would rebut that in two ways. Number one, you don't have time not to do it because it's gonna cost you time at the end. Yeah. You don't have the you don't have enough money to not do that. That's why that's my number two is you didn't charge enough for this. And talking through how we do this during the CEA and before you get a signature is why they're paying more for you than the next guy. You don't want to be the lowest bid because the lowest bid doesn't budget to do this stuff. And you're right, you don't you don't have the time because you don't have the money for it.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

So this is why we're more expensive than the other guys. Now we're not the most expensive, but we're not the cheapest. I promise you that. And this is where I talk to the client about. Like, this is let me talk to you why there's a benchmark walk in our quote. Does the next guy have that? Do you think you guys are gonna pause and spend a day walking it? Do you want, is that valuable to you? Do you want that from your contractor? Because that's why you're paying us 8% more than the other quote that you got. Now, if you want quality, that's what we're here for. If you just want it done and you and quality is not important to you, we're probably not the best fit. But we're gonna give you a high quality product, and this is how we achieve it. Other people say that they're high quality, ask them how they achieve it. It's these benchmark walks, it's how we do X, Y, and Z. It's the Gantt chart that you're getting. It's all of this stuff that we're charging for, we owe to them. And we're promising it to them in the pre-construction phase and in their CEA conversation, and we're walking through all that, and that's how they need to know the product they're buying. We're not, if we don't have this as part of the front-end conversation, they don't realize why they're buying it. They don't understand the value of what we're bringing. And so when you're, you know, I've I've talked to multiple guys that I coach that are like, I've bid all these jobs and I'm losing every single one of them, and I need to drop my pricing. Uh well, that might be the case. Let's look at it, but you're not building value for what they're buying. Like you, they're they're you're offering them a$5 product for$10. Yeah. Where it's like, oh no, actually, what I'm giving you is a$15 product for$10. But compared to the other three guys you talk to, they're selling$5 products and there's no difference from us to them. So that front end process that we really hit hard on, the client engagement agreement, how to do from first intake through signature, that part of our 10-step is so important because if you don't have the money to do the benchmark walks, to take the time, to make sure, to spread like all of this stuff costs you time. And so we need to charge profit on the jobs for it. Because I'm I'm not taking my pay out of the job. My pay is coming out of the profits. So when you're saying, well, you know, I feel bad charging over 30%, or I don't think I can get it. Well, you're not. You're you're spending time. You got to get 35% because 10% is paying your paycheck because you need to spend time standing on this job site doing a benchmark walk and all the other stuff that we want to do to make sure that the quality is perfect. So I think in saying this when God's like, I don't have the time for it, it's a A, you you don't have the time not to do it because it's gonna cost you weeks later as opposed to two hours today. Number two, if you don't have the time, it's because you're not charging enough. You got to build in the time and make sure that you can spend the time needed to do these things and you're getting paid to do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

I mean, at the end of the day, there's a lot of selling you can do on the front end, and you can talk a big game and tell the clients everything they want to hear. But doing things like the CEA, like the benchmark walks, these are actionable things that help you execute. Yeah. Because it's not it's a lot of people have a hard time executing throughout the project. Maybe they can do a good job on the first week or the first two weeks or the first half of the project, but the execution needs to be happening throughout the project, the entire way, like execute what you're talking about, execute the dream that you're selling. And benchmark waps walks help you do that in chunks and phases. And it it I think it's would be helpful for people to kind of be able to look at their project that way. It's like I don't need to execute I don't need to just like execute, execute. I'm gonna get to this point, breathe. Yeah. Get to this point, breathe. Like take it in chunks. Yeah.

Coaching And Software CTA

SPEAKER_01 44:47

That's great. Thank you guys so much for joining us. If you want to hear more about this, want to talk to James or I, want to have a meeting to get some of this paperwork and understand how to build benchmark walks in. We love to Talk to you, go to contractorcuts.com, reach out to us. Uh, we'd love to set up a free 30-minute meeting to hear about your company, tell you about the coaching side of this, the paperwork side of this, anything that you need. Uh, we'd love to work together with you. If you want to get into software proshark360.com, you can sign up for a free two weeks. It's month to month. There's no contract on our software. Um, we'd love to we'd love to show you around in it and uh help you grow your company to the next level. All right, thanks so much, and we'll talk to you next week. Goodbye. Goodbye.