Contractor Cuts

Real Life Client Situations - Answered!

• ProStruct360

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We walk through real contractor dilemmas and show how to stop scope creep, protect profit, and keep clients happy without losing control. From Pinterest-driven changes to midnight texts, we share scripts, policies, and tools that set clear rules and smooth exits.

• explaining the cascade effect of late design changes
• using preconstruction to set rules for change orders
• writing the first small change order to set precedent
• tracking zero-dollar line items for visibility and leverage
• handling “I know a guy” pricing pressure mid-project
• offering managed carve-outs with markup and documentation
• setting communication hours and moving repeat offenders to email
• using lien releases and mutual non-disparagement to exit cleanly

If you have any situations like these you'd like us to read and discuss on the podcast, send an email at Team@ProStruct360.com!


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SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad, and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company. Welcome to Contractor Cuts.

SPEAKER_00:

Why do you always do this to me? My name is Clark Turner. I'm sitting with James McConnell, and here we are again on the Contractor Cuts podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

I've noticed something. When I when I say it with you, you introduce me.

SPEAKER_00:

So you don't have to do it. And I don't know why it's so hard to say your freaking name, but you won't say it, so that's okay. That's good. You you participate, but you're like I'm James, and I'm James.

SPEAKER_02:

James on Kyle. All right. I'll I'll start introducing you, and you can say introduce me. Okay. Perfect. And this is Clark Turner's.

SPEAKER_00:

Turner's on plural. All right. So thank you for joining us again today. We are taking caller requests. They literally call those.

SPEAKER_02:

They literally call these names.

SPEAKER_00:

No, we uh uh we can I meant longtime listener, first time caller. We are um going through situations that either have been given to us or stuff that uh my uh coaching clients have brought up. We haven't read these, we're gonna go blind. Some of them are are given to us, some of them might be really good and 10 minutes worth of conversation, some might be a 30-second answer, but we're gonna really kind of go through situations with clients that we deal with as contractors and what James and I would do in those situations. All right, you ready? Yeah, all right. The first one, and I've got these written down and I'm gonna read them live. I've I haven't read through them most of them.

SPEAKER_01:

I've read A lot of you think we don't look through these suggestions, but we do every week. All of them.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, so the first one is the Pinterest change order client. I'm remodeling a kitchen and the client keeps sending me new Pinterest screenshots every night. We had a sign scope, but now they want a different backsplash, upgraded appliances, a waterfall island, a custom shelving, etc. All if it doesn't change the price too much, they say, uh, we're already paying so much, can't you just swap it out? I've tried to explain change orders, but they get irritated and say, I'm nickel and diming them. James, how should I handle this?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, um, there's a front-end process we've talked about in due diligence and pre-construction, and it you know uh most of this uh this still happens if you do that. Yes. This can still happen if even if you do that. So let's assume let's assume they've uh exp I think it's easy enough to say if you haven't done a preconstruction or a due diligence, if you don't have that as part of your process, that's the problem. Yes. That's the fix. Yes. A lot of the times though, it doesn't matter. You're gonna still have clients that are uh yeah, yeah, yeah, great, let's sign it, let's sign it, great, great, great. Yeah, oh sure, yeah, we can commit to having all the decisions before we start. Absolutely not a problem. And they're still gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

This is like an uncomfortable situation, but you do need to have a conversation where it's hey let's we need to we need to stop making changes because we can't we can't go further down the road until we know where we're going.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And you keep changing the directions, you keep changing the destination, you keep changing what we're gonna do when we get there. We need to know exactly what we're doing. Yeah. And all of these things that you're talking about, the waterfall edge, that's more money. There's no way I can get around that. It's not a swap, it's an addition, not just in material but in labor. Uh the the if they're trying to change fossil or uh uh like shower fixtures, the plumber needs the valve to rough in. So it's not like it's at the end. Your client might not understand those things. And so one of the things we always talk about is getting back into education, educating the client. And I think this really falls in line with that is educating them, and you gotta find a way to do it where it's not, you know, like listen, listen, buddy, listen, lady. Yeah. We we can't do it. You have to find a way that's I understand that. Um here's the issue timelines, uh, the money, the budget, we're uh renegotiating with the crews. We've already gone through that process. So there's a hard conversation that you need to figure out how to make it a cons a consumable conversation for the group.

SPEAKER_00:

I'd also add two things on that. One, oh you missed some areas, let me fill in that that you missed, James. Uh no, the the first thing, you're talking about the the due diligence and the client engagement agreement. One thing, and I think you even mentioned it, like one issue I've had with project managers in the past is they just their goal, their job, their check mark is to get a signature on the CEA. Well, having a client sign it without going through, the whole reason of the CEA is to take them through it and educate and get on the same page. And so if I just send it over, they skim it, they sign it, they're good to go. You haven't set the rules of the game. You haven't spent the time. And so there's this part, the change order, the change of scope uh part is a very small paragraph, uh, three sentence paragraph on the CEA. Yeah. But what I do on that is you have to talk about that one. And so that's one like every single, every single line on CEA, I'm expounding on. So on that one, it's like, hey, listen, just want you to know, like, if you pick out X, if you pick out the tile for the backsplash, I'm gonna go and order it. We're gonna have it on site. My guys are gonna be lined up. And if the day before you say, hey, we need to change the change, I really want to do it. I found this green backsplash and it's really cool. I want to kind of go with this funkier looking backsplash. I just want you to know if you pick that out now, it costs you nothing as long as it's comparable tiles. If you pick it out the day before we're starting, I now have to restock the old one and I gotta pay someone to go pick it up on our job site and take it back. I gotta go hunt down the new one. I gotta get it there, which pushes my my backsplash guy another day or two because I've got to get it. And he might have another job lined up. So it might push him to next week because he's got a job after yours. The cascade effect. The cascade effect. And so I push him to next week so the tiles won't go until next week, which means then the next crew can't come in until and so we've lost a week on your job. I've spent hours and hours rearranging the rest of the cascade effect. And so I've got to spend time building out a new Gantt chart, new timelines, and rearrange everybody and get that old tile back and make sure that the right tile kits on site and that we have enough square footage. And so all of that, if you make that decision a couple days before we do the tile, is gonna cost time and money. And I don't wanna, I want this to be the most efficient and cheap, effectively priced job that you can that we can do for you. I saw you bail on cheap. Not cheap. I want this to be as efficient as possible with your money. And so by doing that in in the 11th hour, you're costing us time, and time costs me money. Because if I spend an extra hour, an extra week on your job site, I'm not making any more money. And so you're costing me money. So I've got to somehow make up for all of the time I spend rearranging all this stuff and that, and you gotta pay for that time. And I don't want to charge you that, but I have to because you're spending it. Does that make sense? Right, and you're sitting at the CEA and be like, oh, that makes so much sense. And so when I get that that uh the comment of, hey, uh, you know, here's another idea, you know, I was thinking about doing this with the and they're not doing it daily, but it's three times in a job. Like, hey, what if we did this? What if I take instead of doing an island, we do like a little peninsula off the cabinets, right? Some sort of thing that they saw that they really like. I oh, should we go back and get the drawings redone?

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I I go in advocacy mode. Like I'm talking with my wife or my mom who's doing her own kitchen. Like, I go into like, oh man, but that's gonna cost us a lot of extra money. What if we did and I and so I'm trying to not spend their money and trying to avoid the change order. Like, uh, I just am my conversation, is assuming there's more cost to it. Instead of me delivering the bad news, hey, just so you know, you're gonna owe us an extra$3,000 for that. Instead of that, I'm saying, okay, let's figure out because that's uh assumed is three grand extra to do that. Let me figure out let's how can we decrease the cost of that change order? And so now we're not talking about if they're gonna pay three grand. Now we're talking about how do we decrease the three grand. Right. And so the the rhetoric that I'm using with the client is assuming those costs are there, because we talked about it in the CEA. And so they're like, oh, that's gonna cost money. Like, yeah, yeah, like we talked about. Remember, that it's uh it's gonna take a lot of time and effort and and it's gonna cost us money to rearrange schedules at this point. So let's try to figure out how do we can do instead of doing that, what if you were we were doing this? That'd only cost you a thousand extra instead of three thousand. And they're like, well, I don't want to pay any extra. Like, okay, well then we let's just stick with we got. Yeah, and so it's it's our problem that we're trying to solve together as opposed to me being their problem. Instead of it's like, well, Clark's trying to charge me another three grand. Instead, it's like, well, he's trying to figure out if we can do it for less than that. I'm pretty like, and now I'm a hero, not the problem, right? And so it's the it's the rhetoric that I use on those things of like, well, it's assumed we've already talked about it's three grand to do that. It's five grand to uh to do that. It's crazy. It's gonna cost thir$3,200 extra dollars because I've got to rearrange things, I've got to pay my tile guy who already is booked for tomorrow, that I've he can't go get onto another job, so I gotta pay him for tomorrow. Uh, and start talking about all that stuff with them. And it's like, ah, you know what? Just leave it. Just leave it. That's fine.

SPEAKER_01:

And then just throw the word COVID in there and you know COVID.

SPEAKER_00:

Tariffs. What? Uh so that's I think that's good. Yeah. Good answer to them. All right. So next one. The while you're here scope creek. And this is kind of the similar. Uh, I'm on a job site to redo a bathroom. Every time I show up, the homeowner adds something. Uh while you're here, can you just replace that light?

SPEAKER_01:

While you're here, can you just?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Can you touch up that wall? Since you've got the tools out, can you just get that door fixed a little bit because it always sticks when it closes? None of this is in the contract, and they act shocked when I mention extra costs. It feels pretty, it feels petty to write a change order over this tiny stuff, but it starts adding up in time and materials. How should I handle this? How would you handle it? Uh man, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you just you gotta charge them. Yeah. Yeah. Well uh I I do it early. Yeah. I do it early, and then I if there's anything that we're doing for free, that it's like you you get it. You you're in the middle of a job. There are certain things that you're like, yeah, that's not gonna be that much, but I'm setting a precedent. So the first change order, no question. I'm charging them.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't care how big or small it is, I'm saying it's a change order. Because it's easier in the very beginning to point back to the CEA and say, I get it, it's a small deal, it is a change order, it's$175 to do XYZ. I have to renegotiate it with the crew, I gotta get the material, we gotta put it in the scope. It's just it's more money.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

As things go on, there's gonna be these random things that you feel like you're it you don't want to be ticky-tacky, and there is a balance and there is a game. And you could be the guy that's like, I charge for every single CO, every single time, absolutely. But we all know things get very convoluted. They're you might not be 100% on your game every single day. You're gonna let one slide, and then there's precedent. Yeah. So it's uh that's a really hard question to answer because every situation is so different. You're like weighing is the stress that this client's gonna put me under. Because some people like just like to negotiate. Some people that's just the game that they like to play. And for me, I hate that game. And so if it's not a huge cost to me, I'm gonna be like, it'd be so much easier to just eat this and be like, no problem there.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I I would almost like what you just said, like it's easier just to eat it and not not deal with this. I always try to be set my project managers up, which if it's your one, if I'm doing it, set myself up to be and feel like and look like a hero on it. So that that being said, of I mean, something like that's like 200 extra dollars. I'll tell you what, I'm gonna do this for you, but I it's it's kind of eaten into any sort of buffer I I got in this job, but I'm gonna go ahead and handle this$200 change order. I'm not gonna charge you for it. I got you on this one, right? To where next time they ask, hey, can you also get this? And actually, that's I gotta charge. Like, we've already uh I've already kind of blown my extra money that I can burn on this on that on the door that we fixed. Can like this is gonna be it's it's only$150 extra dollars, but I I I kind of like we gotta have a change order for this one thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I've thought about in the past having like a uh a line item or a section of like extras and talking about it in the CEA and being like, there's gonna be times where you ask for extra things. I'm gonna add that to the scope every time so we can see what that actually ends up being. I don't know how to land that plane, but there's always these little things, and it's like, you don't want to be nickel and dimed. I don't want to nickel and dime you, I don't want to have to keep doing all these change orders. I'm gonna keep it visible for all of us because once it gets to like$1,500, I'm gonna say, hey, can I invoice? Can I invoice you for this? Do you see how much free work we've done? Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. I think that's great. I think you got to be on top of your software with the change orders. But I think that's a great one of like, hey, I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna put it on the scope, I'm gonna have it zero dollar, but I'm gonna go ahead and just have it written down so it's warrantied. Right? That was always my thing. Like, I'm gonna put it on the scope just so it's warrantied, and and it's covered that we did this out here. It's like$200 to fix that, but I'm gonna just cover it. So line item, repair door,$200,$0 on the scope. But then they ask again, and I can point back and be like, look, I did this, this, this, and this. We're over$700 of change orders in this point forward. I'm kind of out of extra. And that makes sense because, like, oh, you've done all this stuff. I didn't realize all this free stuff that you're done. And that's also helping me negotiate at the end of the job if they're trying to hold back money. Well, you know, you were supposed to paint four walls and you did three and a half, right? Because I, you know, but whatever it is. Uh I, you know, can you take 500 bucks off? Like, and my all my thing always when can you take 500 extra off because of this? Can you just not pay no, not charge me for this? You know, you charge me for all that tile, and I see this as two boxes that you're gonna return. Am I getting that money back? All of those types of nickel and dime that they're doing back to me. I've got my scope, and I say, that's fine. I we can kind of go through that and nickel a dime for over that$50. That's fine. We can look at that. But I am gonna have to enforce that$700 of free work I did because I did that. Now you're nickel and diming on this other stuff. And like it's I think it's fair to say either we just cancel all this out and you got some free stuff and you overpaid for half of a wall, uh, those are gonna cancel each other out and we're good to go. Or if you want to, I can spend an hour or two, kind of go through all my receipts, figure out how much uh discount you're gonna get, and but you're gonna pay me for that$700 of free work I did. And at that point, I've said I've like said that to clients. I'm like, oh, you know what? Just don't worry about it. Just don't worry about it. Because a lot of times it's when clients are like, can I see all the receipts of everything you purchased? And I say, no, that wasn't part of, you know, I wasn't planning on that. I've got them all, but I I just don't have the uh, you know, it I didn't build in five hours to go through and build spreadsheets for this job and I didn't charge you for that. And if you want to pay me for five hours of work, I'll do that. But I do want to let you know if we do that and it comes out where you owe me more money because I had to buy extra stuff, I'm gonna have a change order on that. So let's avoid the change order and save you money altogether and not pay me for five hours of extra work that we didn't plan for, and let's just call it. I've I've said that to clients. That's not just uh and it works. Clients are like, ah, that's fine. Yeah, don't worry, but I didn't realize it was that much work. And every single time because they're like, Oh, yeah, I don't want to pay extra money. Because I'm I'm always actually bought more than what we budgeted for. But if you want me to pull it together, I'll do it, but it's gonna cost you and I'm gonna have to do a change order for you. So I think that's a good one. Um, this is a good one for you. The I know a guy who will do it cheaper. We're halfway through an edition. I don't know where the client tells me their buddy, who's a contractor, says my framing and finishes are overpriced and he can do it cheaper. The client is now questioning every line item on my estimate and wants me to match the price of this mystery friend who's never actually submitted a bid or seen the drawing. I don't want to get into a race to the bottom or trash their buddy, but I also don't want to lose the job or my margin. How can I handle this one?

SPEAKER_01:

These are these are also situational. They're also situational, and I guess that's the point, but when again, this is a part of the CEA, so that's number one. And in a situation like this, I'm looking at it like, oh, we're in DEF CON 5 here. Like this is if somebody's bringing that to me in the middle of a project, number one, I'm like, you didn't care about the CEA, you didn't pay attention to the it's very clear that what that what they're doing in this moment is 1,000% wrong. Yes. So you're dealing with somebody that is already kind of unreasonable and you're kind of approaching a situation like that. Yeah. And so I would just get very much I'd bust the CEA back out and say, hey, listen, we're at this point in the project, we've got this much left. I'm not going I I can't let you go in here and take pieces out at this point. You're we're talking about one thing that's different. We're talking about the uh my cousin does countertops. All right, that's fine. Have your cousin do countertops. We're gonna go in give me a bit, I'll mark it up. We're gonna we're gonna go in before they do the countertops, we're gonna take pictures of everything. We're gonna come in after they do the countertops, take pictures of everything. You're gonna pay me the markup because that's I'm managing it. I'm managing it. Yeah, like you're not gonna manage this, I'm gonna manage it because if something happens, I'm gonna be on the hook for it. We we already know this. So uh we're gonna take pictures of before, we're gonna take pictures after. Uh we'll get it whatever. We'll figure that out. But if you're seriously going through the whole scope and trying to get me to match pricing, that's a that's a relationship ender. Yeah. It could be. So you need to approach it that way. Hey, we're I hear what you're saying, you're not happy with we're not gonna do that. The way that I've bid it out is how I needed to bid it out for my company to be able to do this project, and you chose to go with us. Yeah. If you're unhappy with your project at this point and we need to talk about going a different direction and finding a good spot to shut this down and let you take it over with somebody else, let's have that conversation.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not gonna go through and have and and try and match these pricing. I don't know you, I don't know your guy. I don't know his capability. Yeah. And it doesn't really matter. I don't even want to speak to it because it's not a it's a non-starter.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm not even engaging in that, in that conversation. If someone, if I've started and I'm halfway through a job is different than before we start, like those are two different comments. Like before we start, hey, I got a buddy, he does painting, he said that he could do this for eight, and you quoted us at 10. Uh but how are you not gonna engage it? Well, uh uh well, this is beforehand. I would uh that engagement is okay. Well, I mean, if he wants to be a sub, great. You know, I I do cost plus and I can market up and I can use your buddy if that's who you want to use. I really like my guys and I'm good with working with them. They're on a schedule. Um, I'm not gonna warranty your buddies paint. Uh I'd like to I'd like to own the whole job. So that's a whole nother conversation. If we're in the middle of the job and they're saying, like, like the this example that was written, the uh, you know, the clients question everything because we're in the middle of framing, they're saying the you know, it's cheaper, they can get it. What I don't engage in is that I say, hey, listen, that's that's a conversation before we sign the quote. That is a conversation when picking out, but you signed a contract with me to for this price and for what we're doing. And just because you find someone who might do it lower quality uh and is willing to charge you less, that that is apples to oranges of what we're talking about right now. So we have a contract of what we're doing. And if you want me to pause, every day that we're pause while we're trying to figure this out with your guy, I'm charging you a lot of money because you're pushing our schedule and you're pushing into the next project that I can't start. So at this point of the project, we can't reassess that. I don't have money built in to spend half a day reassessing all of this and vetting your framer and vetting your appliance or your floor refinishing guy. Like I know the quality that I'm selling you, and just because you got someone that wants to sell it for cheaper doesn't mean it's the same quality of what we've agreed on. So we've got a contract for this. If you want to cancel the contract, that's another conversation. You owe me 15% of the remaining of the contract. But you know, at this point, it's gonna cost us money to even have this conversation because I've got to rearrange, I've got to pause on work on the job site. Uh, and so, you know, like I don't want to get into that because it never goes well when we pause at this point and you don't want to pay change order, but I don't have money budgeted to spend time going through all of this for the next five hours with you and talking about that crew. So outside of us pausing and talking about a change order today as to what that's gonna look like, I don't think that's a it's a healthy conversation for us to have right now. What do you think they'd say to that? I don't know. Yeah, I mean it's situational, it's client-wise, and a lot of times it's they're they're doing it to try to get your price down. And it's like, that's not I'm not no, I'm not engaged. Like, no, we already had have a contract. If you want to cancel the contract, it's 15% of the remaining of the contract, and we can get it canceled, we'll figure out an exit strategy on the job site. But this is conversation for last month when we boom were in pre-construction about pricing and what we were using. This is not at this point, we're you know, the ship sailed. Like we there's this conversation isn't a healthy one to have right now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think my initial thought is the rest of this job, if they if if they end up going with staying with you, the rest of this job is gonna be just a total act of contrition. They're gonna want a pound of flesh every time anything goes wrong. Yep. And I'm kinda I kind of want out of that job at that point. Yeah, to be honest. Yeah, if I'm just being honest. Sure.

SPEAKER_00:

But I I think it's there's two types of clients. One's trying to nickel and dime you and beat you up on price, and you probably want out of that job anyways. And the other one is literally thinking they're helping. I've got a framer that's cheaper, and like, why don't we just use blah blah blah? You know, my buddy's a contractor, blah, blah, blah. And I'll first is like, your buddy's a contractor, why didn't you use him? Yeah, like why am I here? Like, uh, this doesn't make sense. Well, he's super busy. Okay, well, uh that's not our conversation right now. But but like those people that are trying to help, if you say what I just said of like, hey, that's a pre-construction conversation at this point, all change orders and all pausing on work, it's costing money. And so I don't want to waste any money on this. And if we want to have this conversation, I'm gonna have to pause everything that's happening on the job site and it's gonna cost cash. And I I don't want to charge you that, but we're gonna have to if you want to pause. Right. So it's on them to pause, not on me. Um, and if they're a good client and they're just trying to be helpful, they're like, oh no, that's fine. Just do it. You're good, good, keep going. Um, and if they're nickel and diming, they're gonna be like, well, you know, if if it's a cheaper price, I'm like, well, we're we signed a contract. It doesn't matter if it's a cheaper price. You've purchased this the meal at this point and we've already cooked the steak. Like you're paying for it. Um, and I think I think that's more of my I'm not entering in without a without an agreement of change order of of extra money. Like, I'm not gonna have that sit down with your countertop guy or your flooring guy. And like, we're not I've already got it planned out. I've already the pre-construction, like we set it up. I spend 90% of my time in pre-con. The rest other 10% is making sure everything happens like we planned. Well, I already spent that time in the 90%, so you got to pay me for more time now. And and I don't want to waste your money on doing that. So um here's a good one. Uh uh I I've got a way that I do this, but I'd like to hear you're the midnight texter client who texts you all hours of the night. And I know we've gotten our CEA, we talk about our work hours, but uh, you know, 11:30, 1 a.m., early Sunday mornings with I got a quick question or an urgent idea. If I don't reply immediately, they follow up with a hello, are you ghosting us? I'm starting to uh resent the project because I feel like I'm called, I'm on call 24-7. I want to set boundaries, but I'm worried they'll call me unprofessional and review how I should handle this. Which number one, this is CEA 101. We talk about work hours when you can, why you can't, why I ask you for that respect of my time. Let's say you've had that conversation with the client and you're project managing. It's easy with as a GM to stand up for your PMs, uh, to say, hey, listen, I want to keep his wife happy because if she's happy, he's working here forever and he's a great employee of mine. And so please don't text at night because that's pulling him away from his family. That's easy to say as the boss. When it's a one-man show, when I'm out doing my own CEAs about this, and then they overstep the line. How would you handle that uh in in that situation?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh you just in my mind, it's uh you absolutely have to address it head on because there's no there's no way to skirt around it. They're absolutely that's a that's a bad that's a human boundary. There's nobody unless you're uh making millions of dollars and uh like that's your job is to be on call 24-7. That is not an appropriate thing for anybody to do. It's just common courtesy. And so it's hey, I appreciate that this is a uh an issue that needs to be resolved. Uh I do need to remind you about the CEA and that there are certain hours that we've asked for email communication, not text communication, and you've texted me multiple times this week uh at very late hours. I have a family, I have a life, and your job is very important to me, but I do need time to where I am I am off the clock, just as you need time to be off the clock. Uh this is not a you're there's not a flood happening, this is a paint color issue, this is a tile placement issue, that thing is not going to degrade overnight. Uh I will address that in the morning. I honestly think that needs to be an email and then a phone call because you need record of it. Yeah. Because that's a that happens and the people that are doing again a reasonable person does not do this. Correct. And so you do need to kind of game plan how you're going to deal with that. Because you can't come in guns blazing because you're going against a crazy person.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I I've uh I'll push back on that. I've had reasonable people that just don't have a lot of social sense that have not a lot, but I I remember one specific client that she was just out to lunch and just like when it came to her brain, it it came to my phone. And I think with that, that type of a client, you're right, most people are like self-centered, unreasonable. Like, well, I need this and I'm paying you. Um, she wasn't that way, but but again, I think the conversation is I try to personalize, like make it not personalize it. I try to help them see the person behind it. Where for me, uh like I like to explain, I do this during the CEA, but I'll do it even more at this moment of, hey, listen, I know this is super stressful, having your house tore up, and this is like a very, very critical part of that process. And for you, like this is big. And it's big for me too. But I've been doing this for 20 years. And if I don't have really strong boundaries where I can recharge my batteries at nights and weekends, I'm not gonna be my full self on Monday morning when I show up to your job side. I'm gonna miss stuff. And so for me, even though this is like a short four-month season for you, this is a 20-year lifelong job for me. And so I can't be taking text messages at 11:30 at night. I can't be sending, you know, getting phone calls on Sunday morning. Like those are my times to recharge my batteries and have a life outside of this. So when I show up Monday morning, you get all of me and my brain's ready to go. And so I've got, I've had to personally draw this line, and this is a commitment to my wife and family of like, I'm not gonna answer these. Now, if you I you know I'm ordering paint Monday morning and you're changing the color Sunday at 8 p.m., text me. Make sure I don't order that paint. I totally get it. That that type of emergency makes sense. But if you're calling to talk about the different uh color swatches for the wall and we're not painting for three weeks, shoot me an email. You like I said, I come to your job set every morning, every Monday, and and let's meet Monday morning. Let's meet out at your house and we'll talk about it. And you know I'm coming out there on Monday. So let's meet then or let's talk on Monday about it. But uh, you know, this is one thing, and why I put it in our CEA is because it's so important to my family that I can disconnect from work and have a balance where they are there and I'm present with them. And so I'm always on top of my phone. I I care about my clients.

SPEAKER_01:

What if they don't have a family and they feel like you're throwing that in their face?

SPEAKER_00:

Then they need to go see a therapist. For me to say I've got a family and I've got to prioritize that time is me asking you to respect my boundaries. It's not an I'm better than you. It's a I'm I I have these boundaries. Oh, I know. I'm just throwing it out there. Yeah. No, I mean there are people that again, this is we we I mean, this let's change this podcast to why the CEA is important podcast, because literally it's like I don't care if you if you disagree with what I'm saying. We signed a piece of paper three weeks ago that says that you're not gonna do this. Yeah. And so I'm not gonna, I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna do that. And I I've had clients, coaching clients that are this way. And I'm like, I've had to have the conversation of like, hey man, I'm not I'm not 24 or 7, and you live on the west coast, and that's three hours behind. So when you think you're shoot me at seven, uh it's 10 o'clock my time. And we can't do that. Like I I just can't at at those times. Uh and people get it, and it makes sense. I mean, there's not a lot of I don't think have you ever had this conversation with a client and then like, well, tough luck, I'm texting you when I want to text. Yes. You have? Yeah. What'd you do about it? I've never I've I don't think I've ever had someone say too bad, I'm gonna do it anyways.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh the uh I can't I I I can't remember the uh the people's names, I wouldn't say it anyway, but they uh it was a couple and there was like uh in the middle of a divorce type of situation. It was bad. It was just bad all around. But that guy didn't care one way or another about time, about how often.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just I was just gr that was a very you had a project manager running that one. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Uh uh, but again, you you stood up to him and were like, that's not okay, we're not doing that. I I would have no problem telling the client, that guy, and being like, hey, just so you know, like we're only doing email communication. Uh I'm I'm not gonna be answering texts or phone calls at this point because uh you know, I've set that boundary and you you've crossed it many times. And I, you know, I've I feel disrespectful to be honest, and I don't I I feel like you're not trying to be disrespectful, but I feel disrespected. So, you know, from now on, we're only doing emails. And then I'd block his number on my phone and just stick to emails because that's submittable in court and I'm getting everything in email. Um, but again, it's that client that you got to protect yourself from. Yeah. That I don't care if they use this again. All right, I'm gonna say one last one before we close out because this was a recent one. It's not on not on here. Um we uh I was had a client coaching client that um we were going, he was trying to exit the job. The client thought that that he should not that he should get money back for something. Um and he and the the my coaching client was like, I did all the work. This guy's just trying to rip me off. Like he wants twelve hundred dollars back, something stupid because he didn't like the way something turned out, but he signed off on it and we're fine to leave. Well, dumb out of the situation. The client wanted him to cut him a check back. Um and so he, you know, he he called me, he was like, I don't know how to handle this because I don't want a negative review, I want a positive review, much less I don't want a negative one. Um, I don't owe him the money back legally, morally. Like, I don't owe him that cash. Like, I did the work, I've got photos, he signed off on it. He just is trying to get money back because he wants to hire someone else to do a different color, uh, even though it was the color we talked about, whatever it was. Um, how do I handle this without getting a bad review? And what I said was, uh, I was like, we have this piece of paper, and I gave uh I sent him the paper. It's a the lien release waiver. Um, but in it, it not only says, hey, listen, um upon final payment, I need this, this, and this. But long story short, in the lien release, they came to an agreement to walk away, but he thought that the client was gonna give him a bad review. And so in the lien release, we put in there that this is releasing, this releasing me from the project, you from, you know, this is the final payment that you're paying me. This is we're gonna end this way, this is how much I'm owed. Sign this. Um, because he was cutting him back some money for some of the materials that weren't spent. So he was like, I will give him X amount of dollars, but not the full amount that he's asking, but you got to sign this for me to release that check. Part of that signature said, Um, neither party can publicly slander or um discuss this in public about the other party. I mean, we put that in there to protect them. I don't know if you remember this. We we've done this on a couple clients in Atlanta, but like uh to protect them to where if they put a negative review online, I've got a piece of paper signed that ended the job that was a lean release that says that they can't post negatively about me in public.

SPEAKER_01:

We actually could have gone after that one girl because she did.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Yeah. And I think we emailed her and said she couldn't. I think she took it down. Oh, I think you're right. But um, again, it was like, hey, listen, I will settle for you, settle on this with you and cut you some money back. Not the whole amount that you're asking, but the amount that's reasonable. But I need us to assign that this is our end of our relationship and we're not gonna be done. And it's protecting both parties, like to the client on that lean release, it says, Hey, I've paid all my subs. You owe me no more money after after this, I owe you no more money, we're we're gonna walk away. Um, but in there we have it written to where no party can talk publicly, negatively in public about the other. Uh, and they they've asked me about like, hey, what does this mean? It means you're not gonna give me a negative review and I'm not gonna trash you online. That's all it means. I don't, I'm not planning on it. Are you planning on it?

unknown:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like, oh no, no, okay, cool, we're good. Give me my check. We're good, we're good to go. So, again, stuff like that to where it's like, I'm gonna think about how to exit this cleanly, how to not get it. Now, you can't always have them sign that because you're asking them to pay you money so there's not as much. So that's a kind of a one-off where you he do the money back. Um, but again, it's like, hey, listen, I want to do this lien release so you don't have a lien put on your house because I want to prove to you that I've paid all my guys and then I'm not gonna lean your house. Most of the time, clients are like, Yeah, I want to, I want that signed. Um, and so those that that type of way to try and exit right, exit the right way without getting a negative review was was helpful in that situation. So all right, that was a lot. I feel like I didn't realize, but this is a stressful podcast for you.

SPEAKER_01:

I was going to say this off the off the it bubble. I could see like I'm just I'm in it. Yes. I'm in it. Yes, you can't talk about it. Follow everything you're saying. I'm like, yeah, last week. Yeah, two weeks ago. I hate that guy. Yeah, I'm so ready to be done with that project. I'm so annoyed. There are so many situational factors that change how you would act on any given situation that it's impossible. It's impossible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Uh you're putting names by you're like, oh, that's Suzanne. Uh-huh. Oh, and that's uh uh I'm sorry for this one. We won't do it again. It's okay.

SPEAKER_01:

There's probably a better format for it. Maybe just me not answering because I don't I'm I'm so I'll do one of the coaching cuts with one off if we do this again.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh you won't have to be there. All right. Thank you guys for listening. If you have any questions or need help with anything that's similar to this, or send us an email. If you go to uh ProShark360.com or contractorcuts.com, you'll go to the contact us page. You can send emails there. If you have a question and need help with something, whether it's something similar to this or something else, send it. I will personally answer you back. They'll it'll it will end up in my inbox and I will send you a response on how I would handle it.

SPEAKER_01:

And if you want somebody to just join and pour fuel on the fire, Clark will give me my my email.

SPEAKER_00:

We'll send it over to James. And if you want someone to just like randomly cuss out your client, like that's I will prank phone call your client. For$20, we will send annoying text to your client every morning. They will never know. Well morning, Cory goes. Uh TM. All right. Thanks for listening. Uh we'll talk to you guys next week. Bye.

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Clark Turner

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