Contractor Cuts
Join the ProStruct360 team on the Contractor Cuts podcast as we delve into the ins and outs of building and sustaining a thriving contracting business. Gain valuable insights and actionable tips from our experts who have successfully grown their own contracting company from the ground up.
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Contractor Cuts
How to Survive a Contracting Company (as a Spouse)
Clark and Esther dive into the challenges of running a contracting business while trying to keep faith, family, and work in balance—and why protecting your marriage is just as important as growing your company.
• How ignoring your spouse’s perspective can slowly erode connection
• The hidden dangers of letting business stress spill over into your home life
• Why transparency about financial struggles builds more trust than hiding them
• The importance of scheduling recovery time instead of always pushing harder
• Practical ways to invite your spouse into decision-making without overwhelming them
• How regular check-ins about priorities prevent resentment from building
• Why spiritual grounding helps you weather business storms as a family
• Recognizing when it’s time to seek outside counseling before patterns worsen
If you’re feeling the strain of balancing business, marriage, and faith, reach out to us for a free call to help you set up systems that protect what matters most.
Join us January 11–13 in Nashville for the Chart the Course 2026 Planning Retreat. Sign up now and get three free coaching sessions before the event to finish 2025 strong and hit 2026 with a clear game plan. At the retreat, you’ll tackle systems, hiring, marketing, and leadership alongside ambitious contractors, leaving with a blueprint for growth. Spots are limited—visit prostruct360.com to learn more!
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Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner. Thank you for joining us again this week. So today I've got a very special guest. My all-time favorite human on the earth, my wife Esther Turner, is here joining us.
Speaker 2:Hey, everybody, I've twisted her arm and brought her in to come and join us, as last week we talked if you missed last week, go back and listen to that. We were talking about contractors and how we put our companies first, how we oftentimes neglect our family, our kids, our wives, our husbands, our relationships in life, and doing it in sacrificing those relationships to building this company. And so we dove deep into some of James's growth as he grew through from his 20s into his 30s and you know, growing from an employee into an owner and what that entails and how it affected his personal life and his marriage. And today we're going to dive a little deeper into mine. So I brought my wife in to talk about her experience. So this is a great one. Send to your wife after you listen to it if you like it. Send to your husband after you listen to it and you like it. This is a great one. Send to your wife after you listen to it. If you like it send to your husband. If you, after you, listen to it and you like it, this is a great one to listen to separately and have a conversation. I think we're going to end with a couple things you can do right now to kind of open up some of these communication lines.
Speaker 2:But today we're going to pick Esther's brain on what it's like being married to a contractor who is super flawed and who has had a lot of growth in the journey of marriage during owning and running a contracting company. So thanks for joining us, yeah, so let's start from the beginning. So we're going to run through kind of our story starting the company and then kind of kind of have Esther give us advice that she would have given herself when we started and what she would tell me when we started, all the way through kind of the different phases of growing a company from a one-man show through where we're at today. But kind of rewinding the clock. We have been married for 19 and a half years. We're coming up on our 20 year anniversary. We got married in May of 2006. And I started this company in August of 2006. Yeah, so it was very soon after. I think our entire marriage outside of those first few months has been me owning a construction company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had no idea you were going to be an entrepreneur.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was kind of that was not what I signed up for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me neither. But we fell backwards into that and that's a whole nother story of how I got into construction. But we, we didn't know what we were doing. We jumped off a cliff together and it was the best of times and it was the worst of times, and let's kind of cover that. So the first three years of our marriage were rough. By year three we were getting a divorce, we were done. We were both over the other person.
Speaker 2:I was running a company. I was a one man show till about 2012. So for the first six years I was kind of skinning my knees, learning the hard way, running it myself. So that was kind of phase one of the company and our marriage. And so that season was me going from working for a company. I came out of college, worked for a construction company and then started my own company, and in those years Esther was working as well. You know, she went to graduate school, got her master's and then went and got a job, and so we were both working, figuring out marriage, figuring out life. We did a lot of things right and more things wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's one of the topics in terms of looking. You know, first question for you looking at that phase of our marriage. I know it was forever ago.
Speaker 1:So long ago so so long?
Speaker 2:What? What do you think, looking back, starting a company, if you could give 24 year old Esther and 24 year old Clark advice, what would you say right now? What? What would you have done differently? Uh, would you have done differently? And what do you think you know, if you could speak to us back then, 20 years ago almost, what advice would you give?
Speaker 1:I would have gone to therapy sooner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, absolutely, yep, that's a good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I, when we got married you, I didn't even know you had the entrepreneur bug, and so I mean I should have known we were together for a long time and I knew that you couldn't work for anybody. Um, you didn't like rules or anyone telling you what to do what, so I should have seen the red flags but I did it yeah um.
Speaker 1:So I think we got married and I think I expected like, okay, normal nine to five job. That's what I grew up with. I mean, my dad was a pastor but he came home at normal hours and we saw him and all that sort of stuff. I think when you started your company, we were really excited, or sorry, I said we, we didn't have kids yet. I was really excited, Sorry, I said we, we didn't have kids yet. I was really excited for you and then quickly it turned into whoa, this is not fun for me. I never see you. Yeah, you were constantly working. There is no off switch. There is no. Okay, turn your phone off. Yeah, is no um, okay, turn your phone off. You were just constantly, constantly, constantly doing something for the company and for the job in hopes of, of, of building it, and I don't. I didn't understand that.
Speaker 2:And I didn't. I was very resistant to it especially at the beginning, and I think on the other side of it it was like I hadn't. I had no coach.
Speaker 2:I had no idea of what to do. All I knew is that we weren't going to pay the rent unless I hustled Right and I felt this, you know, going from a single person to a married person, there was this like oh, I gotta, I gotta provide, I gotta build this family, we want to have kids at some point, I gotta like. And so it was like you say yes to every job, you say yes to everybody, and you just go and sacrifice and burn out and just grind Right. And that was that was kind of the mindset in the beginning, which, in hindsight, I mean that that there is a positive to that.
Speaker 1:Well, there's a necessity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's a necessity to it. But you know, I think in any other phase of our life that would have ended a lot worse than it did, and it almost did. I mean it almost ended. It ended up where we were for sure getting divorced, sitting in a therapist's office saying, yeah, we're getting divorced, but how do we kind of move forward? And we went through therapy for a week in and a week out for six months and ended up coming out the other side in a really good way, and we'll talk about that in a second.
Speaker 2:But I think, starting the company and going into it, all I knew was just work your butt off and just go and if someone calls you, hop in the truck and get to their job site. I didn't know boundaries, I didn't know how to do, like our client engagement agreement that we have now, where we lay out what we can and can't do for you, what you should expect out of us. All of that stuff I didn't have in place. And so it was a work first, family second mentality of I'm doing this for us, this is not, you know, like Esther, just chill, this is for us. Don't you want us to have this?
Speaker 1:Right, I don't think and I don't think the burn hit us until we had kids.
Speaker 2:That's true, that's true.
Speaker 1:I think, sure, we went through a phase at the beginning, before we had kids, but that was just, that was a precursor to well. Thankfully we went through that so that we could, once we had kids, we had the language to talk about it, because it got bad when we had kids too.
Speaker 2:That's true. Yeah, real bad that first we didn't like each other, went through counseling and liked each other and kind of started a new relationship. Coming out of counseling, that's a whole nother story. We started dating at 16 and kind of had some really bad foundation of what a relationship looks like and so we kind of tore it down, went through therapy, rebuilt how to be a husband, how to be a wife, how to have the language of communicating with the other person needs, how to have the language of communicating with other person needs.
Speaker 2:And then we spent two years a year, probably about a year, year and a half post therapy before you got pregnant, yeah, and during that time you're in school, you're getting your master's and we were kind of at that point pre-kids, we were roommates that liked each other, that you know, it was friends with benefits, but also like we were married and we all. But we did our own thing right, like I kind of ran my company, you were getting your masters. It wasn't a us doing it together, I don't think. And and then when we had our first child 14 years ago, um, it was a bit of a shock because I think you went, you, you literally walked down the aisle of graduation for your master's two weeks before our first child was born.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it was like, hey, you're going to be at home with the, with our daughter, and I was making enough that we can figure out how to live on one income, and I was making enough that we can figure out how to live on one income. But it was, we had kind of set a foundation of I'm doing my thing, you take care of the kids, not a team, not us doing it together. Yeah, no.
Speaker 1:And it was a shock for me. I mean, for me it was. I had her and went through postpartum depression which I didn't even know. I didn't know until I came out the other side that that's even what was going on for me. You were grinding. I went through school, I had had a job, I was used to doing my own thing and then, all of a sudden, I had nothing and I had this kid who I loved dearly but also was deeply, deeply sad.
Speaker 2:Well, and you're a doer Like you want to be out doing stuff, getting stuff done, doing it, and I was jealous of everything that you got to do that I did not get to do.
Speaker 1:I was. I was jealous that you got to leave the house without, without having to worry about like. You got to get dressed, you got to take a shower, you got to like. I couldn't do any of that anymore and it was just awful for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and in that moment, instead of engaging, instead of feeling for me, saying hey, you know what I feel, like there's some unhappiness here. I'm like, well, you handle that, I'll handle this, see you tonight. And so I think on my side it was not a hey, she's struggling, there's some attitude, there's some, there's some clashing when we have conversations. So I need to double down on engagement.
Speaker 1:Instead, it was like hey, you need to go take care of you.
Speaker 2:She's depressed, so she needs to handle that Right, and so it was more of a hands off approach on my side, which I regret, and you know, in hindsight it's a. What you have to do in those situations is put everything on the table. Right, we're going to talk about it. I like, hey, I feel like when I come home you're angry, yeah, right.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about it.
Speaker 2:I like, hey, I feel like when I come home you're angry. Yeah, hey, I feel like when, when we were talking the other night, you just were giving me one word answers, you're sure Like what's going on, what's happening?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I don't think I did that well at all and I think there was a system of everyone just takes you know kind of warfare. Keep your head low, everyone take care of themselves and hopefully we come out on the other side.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think there was also a mentality of, because we used to both work and then we stopped working and it was the agreement that I stayed at home which was fine, but it was more of like that's your job. And it was like you've got to be able to sleep all night. So that you can be present for your clients and blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:And oh, Esther, you can take a nap with the baby, um, so you're fine. And and so it was. It was that mentality that we both and I, I fed into it too. I was like all right, fine. Like yeah, he's got to like function, so fine, I won't ask him to help me in the middle of the night, but I was angry about it.
Speaker 2:Well, and it doesn't mean there's a reality to it. It doesn't mean I'm going to be up doing all the feedings every night, right, but if I, twice a week, gave you the night and I fed the, baby and.
Speaker 2:Friday and Saturday are mine right, like, like, as opposed to. Well, that's your job, that's my job. I don't want to do it, so you're just going to handle it Right, like, I think that's, that was the it's just. You know, an inch is what you're looking for. You're not looking for me to run the whole mile. Like, you just need a little bit of engagement to where you're seen, where it's like, it's not a hey Esther, you know, like I'm I got stuff to do. Right, this is your job. Right, you don't work and I'm doing this for us. Like this is, this is something that we need, our family needs me to go work and like I don't want to, but I'm sacrificing for us, so I need to sleep right, like, like it, like it, it.
Speaker 2:It was a uh, a not good mentality, um, but I think it was something that we, we grew through and I think, had some, some resolution a little bit throughout it. I think you were good at speaking up um, eventually, once your dams broke, um, but I think it was. We would have buildups and explosions and conversations and we worked through it, I think. I think, in hindsight, if I was talking to the 28 year old Clark, father of one with, with a wife at home, it would be, you know, just giving an inch. Staying up one night a week, two nights a week, is not committing to doing it every night.
Speaker 2:Right, it wasn't like I like, it wasn't all or nothing, it was like just just engage.
Speaker 2:You know, in the mindset of that, I hid behind of I'm doing this for us, I'm building us a company. We just got to grind through this season to get to the next was more of an excuse to not have to engage, to not have to sacrifice. I think, and we all stand behind this. Hey, you know, this is for us. And as soon as we get to here, as soon as we get to the next phase, as soon as we grow, like my company, I just got to make one higher and then we can relax, and then I won't have to get up at midnight to write that estimate Like as soon as I get to the next, it's going to happen. I think one of our like, overarching from day one through five years ago, four years ago, three years ago, even as soon as I get to X, then Y will happen, and I think that was one of the worst things in our marriage is there was always a neck, you know, and there always is.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and there's always a next season. And as soon as I did achieve something like well, I've bit off three more things because of opportunity.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right. And so it was like well, but I've got this and I'm going to do this, and like, if I could just. And so the goalposts for you were moved constantly.
Speaker 1:Right, which is not good for my personality.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And and it's not good for most personalities who are partnered with an ADD dreamer which is you and most contractors are.
Speaker 2:And I was optimistic, always optimistic, like, oh, but it will be great then because of this and I can rose colored glasses as soon as this happens, then we'll be good. As soon as I got to get up to 2 million in revenue. When I get there, we're going to cruise Right. And there was always a and on my side it was, it was a hundred percent true.
Speaker 1:Like in my brain.
Speaker 2:it was like, yeah, as soon as that happens and we get there, I'm like, well, there's a bigger, bigger piece of the pie. Then, like let's keep going, like let's, let's run for you. It was like, hey, I need you to run one more mile and you're at like 99% there and it's like, hey, we got two more miles to go.
Speaker 1:you're like I you keep moving yes, goalposts yes for me and for my expectations and for my uh what, where I'm ready to stop yeah, yeah, the, the, what is it?
Speaker 2:the path to to hell is the what is it I don't know what you're saying are covered in good intentions, like I always had good intentions, yes, and I always like it was not me like manipulating, it wasn't me like just feeding you a line I legit. If we could get there, I'll be happy.
Speaker 1:And that's the only thing I think that saved us is because I truly that's something that I do believe in. I don't I believe that your intentions are so good. I don't ever believe that you're trying to pull one over on me or manipulate me. I truly see like your dream or heart, and I love that about you. So that's why I held on for so long, but eventually things had to get put in place uh, plans, logistics, all the things that you talk about putting the systems and the processes. Those had to get put in place, or else we wouldn't have been able to keep going yeah, I mean At that pace.
Speaker 2:That's right. I've said it before Every system and process that ProStruck coaches is put in was built out of what you did wrong our arguments. Absolutely, it's literally. I've and I say this to new guys coming to the coaching program like I have skinned my knee so you don't have to like oh yes implement some of this stuff like it's not.
Speaker 2:I'm not a guru, it's just I've made all the all the mistakes, all, and so let me help you not make those same mistakes, and I think that's something you know not. I don't want to toot my own horn. I think I'm good at learning from mistakes. I think I think that when something happens, I was like, okay, let me put something in place to to not do that again. Um, and I feel like that is something that you saw in terms of my movement towards you and like, hey, I've got to put that up.
Speaker 2:I honestly think it was probably go starting pro struct during COVID, where I shifted a little more of my priorities, and I think even over the last year and a half, I've shifted priorities even more in terms of, like, what do I want? Do I want a bigger company or more time with the family? Right, and I think that's that has been, more recently, the biggest shift in terms of like, moving home, moving, moving, closing my, my corporate office down to where I can work out of the backyard, stuff, like that, where it's like I want to be here more often.
Speaker 1:Now, that is on the on the other end, right.
Speaker 2:That's after we're done. But during the journey and kind of going backwards into the journey, what do you think? We had one kid, then two kids and three kids and four kids, four kids and six years. What do you think if you could give me advice back then or speak up for the Esther of those years, what would you say to me in retrospect and what would have you done differently, or do you think that you would have done the same?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I have so much to say on that for me. For me, um, uh, I think I bitched and moaned a lot at you and I would just pick fights with you because I was just so angry Like you pissed me off so much. You would come home late all the time. You told me one thing and you didn't do it, and I would just bark and yell at you.
Speaker 1:Um, instead of telling you how I felt, like when you come home late, it makes me feel like you don't care about us. When you tell me one thing, when you tell me you're going to be here at five and then you get home at seven, all that speaks to me is complete rejection, that you don't care about us, that we are the last thing on your list. And if I spoke to you more about my feelings instead of just yelling at you, I think would have been able to engage you more. Instead, I just yelled at you and so you yelled back and were defensive of yourself, because you were over here trying to grow and trying to do all this stuff for us and but it's, it's for me.
Speaker 2:I mean, the excuse is for us and yeah, and you'll get benefit if it works. But at the same time, like it was my choice to do that stuff, I think one of the on the other side of what you're saying for me it was, if I can get away with stuff and keep my head low and not get a bit off cool on to tomorrow, which is not the loving attitude. That's not the attitude I want guys to have who are dating my daughter, who are going to marry my daughter Right Like the. The loving attitude of like instead of like I hope she doesn't yell instead of like. I hope that I don't hear the garage door Cause. I just hope that I can have some alone time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Switching from that attitude to like hey, if she might yell, there might be something bigger going on here, Right, Well?
Speaker 1:and I'm yelling at you because I'm wanting to what? What I'm too afraid to say, what I'm too afraid to voice, is my vulnerability, that I feel like I don't matter, yeah. And so instead I'm going to get angry, because, because what if I approach you with I feel like I don't matter? And what if you say you're right? You don't. And so it's easier for me to lead with anger, with justifications, and I had every single justification. I mean, I was right. Yeah, like duh.
Speaker 2:And I'm coming home from a 14-hour day and you're upset and I'm like but look what I did, and I've done all this and you don't understand.
Speaker 1:And I'm like look at these four children that are still alive. You're welcome.
Speaker 2:It's a shootout.
Speaker 1:And I didn't hurt anybody.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep, and it's. It's a but what about me? Right, and we got you know whenever we get into the what but what about me arguments where we're both trying to show ourselves the sad part is it's two kids trying to say, hey, I need you to care for me, yep, right, and for us, it's. If you are listening to this and this is happening at home right now, the answer is you just look at the person and talk about what you appreciate about them.
Speaker 1:Somebody has to make the first step, Somebody has to be vulnerable and if you as the contractor and your wife or your spouse is screaming at you, look at her and say what do you need?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like what am I missing? What am I not hearing? Instead of getting defensive like lead by example or, if you are the spouse, lead with vulnerability. That's all it is. It's vulnerability meets vulnerability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and the whole women, the love men need respect. The love and respect thing. Like, if I come home and you're yelling at me, I feel so disrespected, yeah, and so why would I give you like, why would I show care and love for you? And if I'm not, if I miss, if I'm two hours late and you feel unloved, why would you show me respect when you don't feel like I even love you? Right, and so, understanding that and getting those tools in your belt of like, as soon as I start hitting the ding, ding, like, oh, she's like like those, those feelings of the hair sticking up and I'm ready to attack, If you just say the like, go one step beyond the anger, go one step beyond. Why like so if, if Esther is yelling at me because I'm, uh, you know something happened, and she's like well, you did this and that, instead of saying she's angry, say what you know? What did I do to hurt her?
Speaker 1:to make her feel angry. What's beneath that? Like she said whatever, whatever you're arguing about, it's always there's something underneath, and it's so hard when you're in the middle of a fight to think about that and honestly like, if you're at that point and if you keep having that same circular thing, you need therapy yeah, just go to therapy.
Speaker 2:Therapy is it's just what you need yeah, well, and, and I mean we went to there, I, I literally went to therapy to fix esther and she went to therapy to fix me, to fix him and we both went through it and fix ourselves.
Speaker 1:I was in school for my master's in therapy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I had asked Clark for three years to go to therapy with me and he was like nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And then I went to school for it and I was ready to say bye and he was like, okay, let's go to therapy. And I was like too little, too late, dude. And he was like you're going to look like such a fraud becoming a therapist, but you won't go to couples counseling with me. And I was like fine, fine, I'll do it.
Speaker 2:Best decision we ever made. So again, it's, it's a, it's a. Therapy Isn't a bad thing, it is nothing but health, and if you're going to fix your spouse, go to fix your spouse. And if they need to fix the therapist, we'll help get there and try to learn something about yourself in it. But I think going through it it's a A someone's got to step out of that dance. Someone's got to stop the. I'm mad at you, you're mad at me the pointing the fingers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on top of that, you know, going down our story, we had kids. I kept growing. I think the moving the goalpost thing is one of the big things that I would always do. I think, secondarily, one thing you voiced that we've talked about a number of times is because I was running things and I am very logical. I can really logic myself through every single decision. A plus B equals C, so there's no other reason to talk about this. C is the answer, and so because of that, esther was being cut out of so many decisions that I was making that were affecting our family, mostly financial.
Speaker 1:Financial decisions yeah.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of times. There was times that we lost six figures.
Speaker 1:Lost so much money that I didn't, clark, I mean. I remember specifically two times that Clark came home and was like hey, I've got to tell you we just lost X amount of dollars and it was six figures. And I was like what the crap? Like how did I not know? And he's like well, it's because I decided to do this. And I was like I didn't know, you decided to do this, like that was a huge decision that you completely left me out of, like what?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. I justified it as she didn't ask, she didn't want to know. Like she's doing her thing, I'm doing mine. In reality, it was a let me just do this. Let me. Just try.
Speaker 1:Well, I think in your, because you are so optimistic, you're like it'll work out, like there's no need. There's no need to tell her It'll be fine, it will not go bad.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well. So I think, learning from that, one big thing to do is have some finance business meetings, like couples business meetings of. Let's sit down and talk about what's going on. Let's engage each other. Why don't you ask your wife do you want to know about what's going on? Do you want to know about the finances? You want to know about my company? What's happening? And if they say no, say okay, well, big stuff's happening. No one says no to that. They're like yeah, please tell me what's happening with our dollars. What's going on? What ventures are you starting? What you know? What? Who are you partnering with what? What's all happening to where? If I get home, last thing I want to do is talk about the bad stuff that happened today, and so if you're not asking, I'm not telling. And in three months later, that bad decision or the bad thing that happened has snowballed into large losses.
Speaker 2:And then it's like oh, I got to tell her at some point point, and so she's finding out after the fact every single time, because she hasn't been involved from start to finish. So I think that's another big one of how do you engage in the soft times so when it gets hard, she knows she's on your team as opposed to an enemy.
Speaker 1:I think that that's something in retrospect we would have done definitely differently totally differently and like trust that your spouse or your partner has it good ideas.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:A good opinion, or it doesn't mean you have to do everything that they say, but if you've got a good working relationship with your spouse, like you should want to hear from them. You should want to hear their thoughts. I never tell you things where I'm like oh you have to do this, but I always give you an opinion, yeah. Well and you've got 99.99 of the time. I am right. There's been hires that you have made every single time.
Speaker 1:There's been about three yeah where clark has hired somebody and I've been like I don't like them. One one of one of the dudes I used to work at t-mobile he this is so random he came into my store, he yelled at me. I mean, he reamed me out about something, about his dumb cell phone leaves the store. Two weeks later I go to clark's office. I see that dude and clark's like I just hired him and I was like that person is just a horrible person. He went, he and I told him and Clark was like yeah, he's fine, he's fine. Guess what? You fired him.
Speaker 2:Sure, the other side of that was I went through all this interviews he I hired him as a project manager. I needed a project manager, so bad I. If you had a heartbeat and had experience in this industry, I was going to hire you. I didn't do a higher right Right Like I didn't do the right hire.
Speaker 1:Oh, you didn't. You didn't have any of those systems and processes and procedures that you do.
Speaker 2:But it was like oh, a relief, Cause I could dump jobs on him and he will execute them.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And you came in and said that guy yelled at me like two weeks ago, right, and so I'm like that, sucks, I'm sorry babe. Uh, this is a fix for me, so I'm gonna keep them, uh. And then, like a month and a half later, I had to fire him because of some indiscretion.
Speaker 1:So it was and it that happened like two more times not the guys didn't yell at me, but I was just like I don't like I've got, I've got this gut intuition, you've got really good discernment. Which doesn't mean that you have to like follow that Sure. I just love knowing that I'm right, like it's fine, like at this point.
Speaker 2:Well, it's a matter of I am so logical, I can out lawyer you on anything. Oh, and because of that I get almost on a high horse of why would you, why would I ask you, like it's?
Speaker 1:logic. We should do this, right, esther? You just feel.
Speaker 2:Yes, and and where I'd never valued that in the past, of like there is some discernment, there is some hey, maybe like, what do you think about this, what am I missing here? And and that's, that's a cockiness, that's a, that's a um self. You know, uh, I'm better than you at this, so just let me make those decisions, um, to where it is something that, in hindsight, a, even if I was right, involving you in that confirms it right, and if I'm wrong, involving you in that might help me Right. And to be able to kind, of hat in hand, look back and be like I should have. Maybe I'm not perfect, maybe I'm not good at that, maybe I need to learn how to do that better.
Speaker 2:It's hard to do when you're running a company and you know, I think, going back to like the beginning, when you're starting a company, you're everything. I'm the janitor and the CEO, I'm start to finish doing everything and as an ADHD brain, it's great, I can, I can kill it with that, but that also means that I'm all over the place when I get home. I'm doing everything and getting pulled in all these directions as I grew the company and kind of narrowed my job description down into kind of CEO isish into the company to where I'm doing a lot less. I could control my schedule a lot more, I was home a lot more often and it was easier on that side. But then I have the weight of carrying employees, then I have the weight of there. You know there were. I think one of our biggest recurring issues has been babe, I'll be home at five, at 630,. Esther texts me and says where are you? I think that's been over and over for 20 years. It's been an issue for us.
Speaker 1:And it's not, honestly, it's not resolved.
Speaker 2:No, it happened last week it happened. Friday. Yeah, that being said, if you're listening to this, I'm sure you haven't experienced this with your wife. That happened Friday, yeah. That being said, if you're listening to this, I'm sure you haven't experienced this with your wife. That being said, it is something that I think we both have worked on. Yeah, you have worked on the grace side and you are so good at giving me excuses.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, You've been. It is a blessing as a husband to have you make. Yeah, I'm sure he's busy because of this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the benefit of the doubt you build the benefit of the doubt in for me. Now I think we've gotten to a spot where that has grown more and more because I have worked my butt off on trying to do it well and I think like I still miss it. Like you said, friday, like I said, I said hey, our girls go to school on Tuesdays and Fridays. That's her home school's. Other days, on Friday they were. She was picking them up at school, got them. I was like hey, get them, bring them home.
Speaker 1:You moved your meeting. I moved the meeting early for get.
Speaker 2:Get the kids home, they get.
Speaker 2:I got a carpool line early, yep okay and I was like I'll be done at four, get them them home. We're going to go get burgers, we're going to have a fun Friday night, we're you know all this stuff. Well, my three to four o'clock meeting, there were some fires we had to put out with this client and I was. You know, for me I get a pop up 10 minutes before my next meetingclock meeting because it was moved. There was no pop-up to go hang out with the family. So I'm on a, I'm on a call with one of our partners helping, you know, coaching through some heavy stuff, and it just goes and it just goes and goes and what I should have done is say, hey, let's pick this up on Monday. Like I got some.
Speaker 2:I didn't think about it, I was out of out of sight, out of mind. I'm not looking at the clock, we're just going. It turns into about 440. One of my daughters pops her head in my office because I'm working in the backyard. Now, yep, I hear steps up the stairs and it pops in the head.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I sent her up there. I was like go see what dad's doing.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, oh yeah, I got to go. So I get off the meeting, I walk down to the house and instead of getting chewed out with attitude, I get a hey, are we still got time for burgers? Should we go to Mexican Right? Like, I get this, this, it's okay, and the kids are ready to chew me. You know, up and down they were hungry. They get home from school and they're starving.
Speaker 1:That was only because they were hangry, but they're good with it. They are.
Speaker 2:But I say that because you're justifying it to them. You're saying, girls, it's fine, Like we're going to get. He had work that something went over.
Speaker 1:We have built enough rapport over the years and I know how hard you have worked at it. Yeah, and so you have built that in by being as consistent as you can be you. Back in the day he would text me and say I'm leaving the office, but he would still be inside of the office and so you know it's a 10 minute drive home. He would say I'm leaving the office.
Speaker 2:I'm packing up headed home.
Speaker 1:Yes, he would. That's what you would say. You would say I'm packing up.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. I feel like I would say I'm packing up.
Speaker 2:Yep, oh, my gosh. I feel like I would say I'm packing up to head home.
Speaker 1:It'd be six o'clock he say he's packing up. It takes 10 minutes to drive, packing up takes one minute. Okay. And then seven o'clock he's rolling into the driveway and I'm like what the crap? Yeah like why?
Speaker 2:and so we talked well and on my side I was packing up and I was headed home and then someone came into the office I've got project managers and general managers and office all in the office with me and I'm packed, well, no, what I'm saying is, like I'm packing up, one of the guys walks in hey, we got an issue, what's up? Real quick, blah, blah, blah. You got two minutes, yes, I got. Yeah, well. And so we start diving in and we're diving in. Hey, we got an issue, what's up? Real quick, you got two minutes, yes, I got. And so we start diving in and we're diving in. We're talking, we're talking, and on my side, I just made some decisions that saved the company $20,000. It's worth an extra 30 minutes of my time. On your side, you're left hanging from this text with expectations.
Speaker 1:When I'm dying over here with four kids who I've been home with all alone all day.
Speaker 2:Especially when they were younger, when they were little. It was awful. It was like when I say I'm going to be home at 510, starting about 450, you're counting down the minutes because it's like I just need to pass the kid off, hand him the baby and go outside for some fresh air.
Speaker 1:I can't be touched or spit up on one more. Yes.
Speaker 2:And so when I say I'll be home at five, every 10 seconds, that I'm late, she is. She is cursing my name, Right, and so it is one of those things it still happens, though of like I'm still speaking, like hey, I told you one thing, I'm not doing it. I don't, I don't care about your time, I'm more important than you. That's what I'm speaking to her, and so I.
Speaker 2:What I got into, yeah, what I started doing probably eight years ago, is I would, I would set one of those you know area reminders that when I left my office and got out of a certain radius, my phone would ding saying text Esther. And I'd text Esther and say I'm headed home. And to this day, if I'm out somewhere and I'm headed home, I text her. When I'm in the car driving hey, I'm headed home. If I'm at a buddy's house, if I'm out to lunch or dinner with someone, like hey, I'm headed home is when I'm in the car driving, Not when I'm about to walk to the car, cause anything can happen. So I'm in the car driving home, which changed.
Speaker 1:It changed everything because, especially for my brain, like you're okay, like even personality wise, like you're okay being a little bit late places, me being on time is 10 minutes early, and so if you say you are headed home, that means I'm looking at the clock and however long it takes you to get home, that's when I expect you to walk in the door or you know a catastrophe has happened, you know you're dead.
Speaker 2:He better be on the side of the road You're dead in the ditch, hopefully, or else he's in trouble. Exactly, yeah, so it was one of those things that was an easy fix for me.
Speaker 1:It was so easy to change that and so helpful for both of us because you know what it built trust back because I lost all trust in you of when you said you would do something Well and benefit of the doubt works when it happens randomly.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have on the fifth day in a row.
Speaker 1:It's like I can't give the benefit of the doubt, I'm done. I can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I mean it's like I can't give it, I can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so I mean, and then I'm just angry yes, so that's something that literally.
Speaker 2:I mean, like I said, it happened Friday and I'm working in the backyard Like it, it, it's still going to happen, it's going to continue to happen. It will happen forever. I'll be on my deathbed and I'll miss dying by 10 minutes Right, Like I will always be late. That being said, like there is a grace that she gives, but also the ability and I think this is one thing that I think we do really well is we're good at raising flags of like hey, or, if you're prickly, I think I've been good at saying hey, what's up?
Speaker 1:You're very good at that.
Speaker 2:If I come home, like one word answers to you. You're like hey you stop, you grab my arm and say what's going on, like what's happening, and I think that is the small difference of a healthy and unhealthy marriage for us, like in those moments, identifying those, flags.
Speaker 1:It's the quick check-ins. Yes, like you don't wait, you don't let three days go by of being stonewalled.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is what we would do, and God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was not fun it was not a fun place to be.
Speaker 1:It wasn't fun for either one of us. No.
Speaker 2:But I think going forward it's been a. We're not good at it all the time, but I think that it's something to where we can. I know you've got my back and you know my intentions are to love and put you first and I think that is something that if we both live in those places, we both give each other a lot of grace and forgiveness. I think for me it's a. I have often put my company first. I've often put that first in justification, saying this is for you and for the family, and I think, if you can erase that part out of your mind, this isn't for her.
Speaker 2:I could go work at Home Depot and provide for this family. I can go get a corporate job, be home at normal times, have different types of stress and provide for us. This is what I want to do. This is for me too, and it's my choice of what business I want to be in, and so I think if I get a little bit of ownership in that, stop trying to push it off on the family. I'm doing it for them and really engage with, like, what are my priorities? You know I've sat with couples that are going through you know, as coaching clients and been like you have to choose your wife or your company because you're you're losing both. Like you're, you're choosing your company right now and you got to choose your wife, and that's, honestly my favorite part of of of the coaching side and pro instructive like being able to hold a mirror up to guys that I wish I could have done 10 years ago to myself, right, and I think that's that's the most fulfilling part of this for me.
Speaker 1:I hear him for a while before he was in his office out there, he was um in in our sitting room. Uh, for the last four months, for the last four months, and I have heard Clark countless times talking to his clients like as he's getting off the phone or getting off the zoom, with them being like hey, you're about to go on vacation, please be on vacation, don't look at your phone, don't text me. He and he'll be like you know, if you happen to wake up early before the whole family's awake and you want to do a couple hours of work, that's fine. Wake up early before the whole family's awake and you want to do a couple hours of work, that's fine. But once everybody wakes up, like stop, like focus on your family and that's that.
Speaker 1:That is what I love about you and doing all these like systems and processes and I make fun of it all the time, cause I'm like so it's not in some processes, but it is what has saved us. Everything that you do and everything that you coach. This is a shameless plug. Like it I'm not kidding Like it has saved our marriage the thing. Let Clark's mistakes help you.
Speaker 2:Man, we're going to put you on payroll.
Speaker 1:This is, oh, my God this is a great market. Well, and I would say too, I started working this past year, yeah, and I think not everybody is in a situation where someone's at home and someone's working Sure, we're both working now and I have a lot more. I have a lot more understanding. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Like, take a Sunday morning when I'm at work and the kids, Clark, are coming at me like talking to me. But I need to focus on the people that I am working with.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's like, hey, I'll get you on a second Yep, and it's given me a little bit more like, oh yeah, I get it All right, yeah, and it's giving me a little bit more like oh yeah, I get it All right, Fine.
Speaker 2:No, it's something that we haven't arrived.
Speaker 1:No, we never will. We will still fight about this.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, you are always wrong at some point.
Speaker 1:I am never wrong.
Speaker 2:So well, it's not an arrival, but it's a realization of some good things, where it is not a explosion after three months, it is a conversation after three hours.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, and if we can reduce that runway of anger and hostility and withholding love and withholding respect from each other until I get what I need, yeah, if we can continue and always reduce that, we don't get in those fights.
Speaker 1:If you can lead with vulnerability.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And that's the hardest part, and if you, if you cannot lead with vulnerability, go to therapy because you need to learn how because if you cannot speak to your partner with vulnerability, you will not make it. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and getting away from my value is what I. I find value in who I am by what you say, and I think that carries over into leadership. Like when you hire employees and employees say negative things about you or tell you that you're something that you don't believe you are, or call you like someone quits and says something negative about you to somebody else. Like what I've learned in marriage of okay, let me step back and separate her anger from what's reality and let's have a conversation about what you're actually feeling.
Speaker 1:And that's what you learned in therapy.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh for sure.
Speaker 1:Clark always used to say this and it used to piss me off so much. But after we went through therapy, he's so logical and blah, blah, blah. But he would even tell me he's like, it's like a game to me.
Speaker 2:He's like when you I call it positive manipulation and you hated it Like because-.
Speaker 1:I still hate it.
Speaker 2:But it really was. It felt like positive manipulation, because I would say the exact same thing, but I'd say it in a way that you could hear With the tools that I got of. Okay, talk, say it this way so she hears it. And then I get a totally different reaction out of saying the exact same thing practically, and I felt like I was manipulating you. I did like in those moments it was like I just said it a different way and I got exactly what I wanted.
Speaker 1:What he's saying is that I would yell at him about something I was pissed off about and he would go underneath and he would be like I feel like you are feeling unloved, blah, blah, blah, all the things. And I, you know, of course it would piss me off because I'm like, maybe don't call me, don't call me out, let me be mad because I need to be mad. But it works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. It does. So if you're struggling, please go to therapy. If you're not, go to therapy. It's nothing but a positive thing for you. If you want to start putting some systems in place, I would love to have the conversation with you. We are doing a retreat. If you want to see Esther in person.
Speaker 1:Please come Last year was the first year that I went on one of these and, honestly, like it's embarrassing. I've been married to him for 20 years and I've heard I thought that I had heard all the things, but I sat through his retreat last year.
Speaker 2:It was three days, two days, two days and it's three total days Cause we get there on Sunday and do a cocktail party that night and there's two full days of intensives.
Speaker 1:I am not going to lie. I thought that I would be bored. I did. I'm not a contractor. Yeah, Like I'm a therapist. I'm a guest services director at a church and I'm a homeschool, stay-at-home mom. That has nothing to do with contracting, Nothing Nothing to do with entrepreneurship. But I sat through because I was doing all the food. I will give you good food if you come, I promise. But I sat there and I listened to him and I was intrigued by every single thing he said. It was amazing, and I've been around this guy for way too long.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. Well, it's a lot of fun. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:I want people to hang out with, please.
Speaker 2:It's great. It's a. It's a really good intensive. It's. It's three days, no-transcript. Go get some drinks, come back to the main place and hang out, or we stay right on main Broadway in downtown Nashville. Everyone leaves Wednesday morning. If you got to get out, you can leave Tuesday night, but we all kind of hang out that evening. So it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:If you want to, if you want to come, go to contractorcutscom, sign up for a call. I do a phone call, a 30 minute phone call, with anyone who's interested in coming before you get signed up, because I want to make sure it's a good fit for you. There's some companies that aren't ready for it and there's some companies that I want to make sure this is a good fit because it's really good, and so, whether you think you're ready for it or not, give me a call, let's have a conversation, maybe let's let's get some things in place for coming next year. Um, but uh, I would love to have a conversation with you, make sure that this is a great fit for you, tell you a little bit more details about it. Uh, it's January 11th through 13th coming up.
Speaker 2:Also part of it, I do three free coaching sessions if you sign up for the, for the retreat. So if you're coming on the retreat, we'll have three sessions to finish out your 2025 strong, and then it leads into the retreat, kind of prepping you for it, and then we go on the retreat and it launches you into 2026 with everything you need to know. A full game plan is what you got to do. So please sign up. At least have a phone call with me, babe. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1:You're so welcome. I feel so honored to be here. I've watched every single one sure yeah, uh-huh okay I've watched most of them.
Speaker 2:I promise, I promise you gave us three out of five stars as a review. I appreciate that that was big for you, so thank you guys. So much for listening, and we will see you guys next week bye, bye, bye.
