Contractor Cuts
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Contractor Cuts
Surviving the First Job: Managing New Crews
We continue our series on vendor management by focusing on how to effectively manage crews from their first job through establishing a long-term relationship.
• Horror stories about bad crews illustrate what can go wrong without proper management
• Red flags during interviews include claiming to "do everything" while green flags include transparency about specialized skills
• Requesting photos of previous work helps assess quality and attention to detail
• Building a "bullpen" of vetted crews before you need them prevents desperate hiring decisions
• Investor properties provide ideal low-risk testing grounds for new crews
• First job management requires thorough pre-job walkthroughs covering logistics and expectations
• Being on-site at the beginning and end of each day helps verify punctuality, productivity, and professionalism
• Decision to coach versus fire depends on attitude, ability to learn, and skill level
• Setting clear expectations about daily progress and cleanup prevents common problems
• Good communication and establishing partnership mentality creates successful long-term relationships
Join us next week for the final part of our series where we'll cover how to properly fire a crew and protect yourself legally if things go wrong. Also, sign up now for our January retreat and receive three free coaching sessions to help close out your 2025 year.
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Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner and I'm James McConnell. Thanks for coming. Good to see you. You too. You too, today we are talking about we're continuing from last week. Last week we did a how to onboard vendors and crews, how to walk them through when you're bringing them on all the paperwork you need, how to pitch it to them, how to talk about the partnership that you're having with them. It's not I'm hiring you as an employee, but you're a partner. Here you are. We're doing this together to both make money and build our companies. So we did that. If you haven't listened to that one, go back. It's a short one, it's like 15 minutes.
Speaker 2:Today we are continuing that series, part two of three, where we're going to be talking about how to onboard I'm sorry, post onboarding how to do the first job with a crew through a long-term relationship. Right, how do I? You know, managing a crew on the first job is different than the fifth job, which is different from a year from now. And so how do you manage them differently, what you should be doing, what you shouldn't be doing, and kind of start to finish, making sure that we build that relationship to where we're making money, we're keeping our quality up. We're making sure that everything's happening the right way. Good, great, good, yeah. So to get started, why don't you tell me about the worst crew you've ever had?
Speaker 1:Okay, the worst crew I've ever had. The worst crew you've ever had. The worst crew Well, this wasn't even really a crew. I think this is how it typically happens. Yeah, this is not the worst crew. Well, this wasn't even really a crew. I think this is how it typically happens. Yeah, this is not the worst crew, but a crew that was, like you know, middle of the road, but we saw really good potential. We hired them to do a project and they hired another crew, yep, yep. And so this crew shows up to your cousin's house yep, and they're repainting everything. They're moving in from, out of out of state, and, uh, I the, your cousin's wife calls and says I think they're like smoking in here. And I'm like what? And so I go over there. Our, my project manager was out of town, so I was covering that project. Yep, and I go over there and, sure enough, smells like weed. Not just cigarettes, not just cigarettes, it smells like weed and it was in like the baby in the nursery.
Speaker 1:They were painting the nursery, smoking weed, yeah, with like a crib. There's like a crib sitting there and I just walk in and I'm like I can't. I can't believe I'm about to have this conversation. I'm like, hey man, first of all, you're fired. Second of all, what the hell Like?
Speaker 2:what are you doing? What was your thought process? Yeah, yeah, that's a. That's about I think. I think of another one too, which, again going back to one of our other podcasts friends and family. If it, if you work with friends and family, it's gonna go wrong. Your crew is going to smoke weed in the bedroom.
Speaker 2:The another story that I thought of, too, when you started talking about a crew hired a crew crew. We one of the biggest issues that we've ran into in the past that have actually cost us money is you hire a random crew and it's not a crew, it's a one-off dude, uh that goes and hires a third crew or a second crew after them, uh, and just brings them out there and does the work, uh, and then I pay that first guy and then he doesn't pay that second crew. Right, we had I remember a time that that happened exactly and we it was for one of our larger REITs that we that we service. So we did probably three to $400,000 a year for this company, all in like $30,000 flips the. They called us up and said, hey, you guys have a crew that put a lien on one of our properties, fix it. You got a day Like we need this fixed. So, a killing our reputation with a company that sends us a lot of business.
Speaker 2:B we can't find the crew. We hunt them down, the person that put the lien. I've never heard it before. We didn't know the crew, we didn't know the person, we didn't know the person, we didn't know anything. So we finally hunt down who that was. I think we just by google, searching their name and trying to hunt them down through facebook or something, and we call them like yeah, uh, you know, bobby hired me and he come out here and he disappeared and didn't pay me anything. We're like, wait, we hired bobby to do the work and he just had y'all come and do and he took the money. Right, was it really bobby Bobby? No, not Bobby, not Bobby. Bobby, bobby Boucher no, it was actually a female. I forget her name.
Speaker 2:But all that to say, they hired this third party because we weren't controlling the job site, because we weren't doing what we're about to talk about today. We just, you know, it was the easiest way for our project manager to just get onto the next job. To just get onto the next job. Okay, this person seems like they got it. Let's go. They'll give me the keys back when they're done.
Speaker 2:We kind of subbed the whole thing out. The person took the money and ran, so we went to I mean we don't want to screw the crew that actually did decent work, and so we had to pay double for that second crew, I mean, and the first crew, I mean it wasn't a big deal, it was like grand, but not enough to go after them legally and lawsuits Cause most of the time those crews don't have the money. That type of person doing that isn't stacked with a couple hundred grand that we can go after for for screwing us. Um, but again, it was because we weren't controlling it. We have a lien on the house from a third party that we've never heard of before. Right, I think that's to me like there's a lot of issues with crews being slackers, not showing up, getting there late, just not being professional. That's going to happen and there's ways to manage that we'll talk about today.
Speaker 2:It's more of the like I'm I'm purposefully ripping everybody off in this situation uh, that really kind of lights, lights a fire in terms of like I'm going to. You know, we need to fix this, we need to go after that. So, anyways, going from there, when we're looking at crews, when we're talking about new crews. We went through an onboarding. You brought them on. Tell me, when you start seeing signs, even in, like the initial interview, right when we're sitting down with a new crew to talk about them onboarding, what's the good side? The green flags and the red flags that start popping up in those interviews? What's a good crew, a mediocre crew and a bad crew? When does that start boiling to the top and you can actually see what's going on?
Speaker 1:well, my favorite, is the dude that we were trying to hire. This is like early, early yeah, and the the interview process and the guy was like I'm really good with the ladies, you know they get upset. I say baby, baby, relax, relax. He's like feed her on my desk.
Speaker 2:I was in there with you. I don't know why we were both onboarding a sub together, but I was in there with you on that guy.
Speaker 1:So funny he didn't get hired. What Baby, baby. Red flags and green flags like during the front end. Front end guys that say, hey, what's your best trade? Like, what do you do? Yeah, I can do everything. No, you can't. Yeah, that's my first red flag. Uh, green flag is when they literally tell me something like I do framing, I do sheet rock, I don't like doing anything else, yeah, great. Thanks for the transparency I can do anything.
Speaker 2:Don't put me on sheet rock, I will not make it look good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect, thank you wonderful uh, I, sometimes I'll ask well, all the time I'll ask for pictures of their work and, like, some dude sent me a slate of pictures and in there and this is a great thing to do because it's sometimes it's not very easy to get onto their project, like it might even be, it might be an hour away from you, it might be run by another company and they're not comfortable having you on there.
Speaker 1:Uh, but getting pictures of their job is like a nice way, like for them. They're going to grab pictures that they're like okay, I'll send them this one, I'll send them this one, and then I, you get those pictures. And I had one where the guy was like just splicing in all of this sheetrock, so it's not full boards, it's like, hey, we've got all these scrap pieces, let's put it all together. You're not going to get a good finish like that. There's a thousand joints, and so I got that picture. And it might not mean that he's a bad crew, but I'm not going to give him sheetrock work. So I don't know if that's a red flag or a green flag, but that's just like a little.
Speaker 2:Well, asking for pictures is a good little. One of the things I talked about in last podcast is I want to get to know the crew during this interview. Not a sponsor, not a sponsor of Starbucks, just a decent drink, dece. We're trying to get to know these crews during the interview. Right, I talked about we do a. There's a skills assessment that I give all my coaching clients of. This is the first thing we do in every interview. Of these 20 skills, let's talk through them. Let's do this and that and the other, but this is the first thing we do in every interview. Of these 20 skills, let's talk through them. Let's do this, not the other. But what? What?
Speaker 2:James was brought up asking for photos, right, who takes photos of their work? Or guys that are proud of it? Right, if you have no photos, that's doesn't mean it's a bad thing, necessarily. But if you show up like, hey, I've got 78 photos, let me show you what I do. Let me look here where I tied in the trim work over there and like, those are guys that are proud of their work. They're going to be doing really good work. Honestly, those guys, I'm saying, okay, how quick can you do that? Because I see the high end finish that you do.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about pricing. Let's talk about how quickly you can do. You know, are you throwing sheetrock in a house in a day and a half or is it taking two weeks? Those are big differences in terms of I can't afford you if it's going to take you two weeks to do 10 boards of sheetrock.
Speaker 2:But if they're bringing pictures A, you can assess it, like you just said, with an eye for like hey, why'd you do that? Or it would have cost you an extra 40 bucks in sheetrock to just make that wall flat instead of piecing together these extra pieces. What happened there? And you can start getting to know them and asking questions about their work. And you know, don't just look at the picture and say, cool, like, ask questions, what did you do here? Why did you do it that way? You know what was the job, like this paying, like those sort of things that get to know them and get them talking, because the more they talk about themselves, the more data I'm gathering about them as to what I can use them on what I shouldn't to have issues with, what I need to watch.
Speaker 1:I like to ask for nobody likes to give you this but I like to ask for pricing. And you know, typically, like 99% of the time, you're going to get every job I estimate on its own. There's no, you know, standardized pricing and I'm like I get that. But I also know that when you go and estimate a job, you're not just going in like you have numbers, you're going in there. You're like I got to pay my guys this amount. Here's this many boards, it's going to take me this long.
Speaker 1:I need you to condense that down and I don't need every single thing. I need to know how, if I'm going to use you for sheetrock, for paint, for for flooring for you know, floor prep I need to know rough square footage numbers of what it costs me to hire you to do this job. Because when I'm in a client, when I'm engaging with a client, I'm not going on site first, I'm doing it from a desktop perspective. It's a rough estimate. So I'm not tying you to numbers, but I, if I want to give you work, I need to know how much I have to pay you. So I need you to help me with that.
Speaker 1:I want a budget to be able to afford you and when they are, um, accommodating with that, that's a green flag for me. I know that there's going to be guys that like they don't want to do it. Nobody wants to do that for you. But the guys are like I get it and they give me something that's actually, you know, put together, like they sat down and they took the time to do it. Yeah, they get it. They have a bigger picture mind than just the dude that's like yeah, yeah, maybe yeah. Or just like, yeah, I'll do it, and they never send it. Somebody that actually took the time to sit down and do that is like I want to get in with the company. It's not the best, you know, I don't make as much money, but I like the consistency. I see the value. That's who I want to work with. So guys that are accommodating to requests outside of the norm is a big plus for me, because I need to be able to work with these guys.
Speaker 2:Well, and when you bring them in and start talking about pricing, like you know what's your labor per board. If we're doing a full house to sheetrock, right, and they come up, you know, $30 a board, $40, whatever it is, if they can say that off the top of their head, that means they do this a lot. If they're like, oh, I don't know, just let me, I don't really like, we'll just. I don't really like. When they start backpedaling and can't talk how they price stuff with you, oh, this guy has never done this before. Or he's not proficient in doing drywall, or he's not proficient in doing, yeah, we can refinish floors. Well, what do you charge per square foot? I mean, it depends on the job. It shouldn't? It really shouldn't? Yeah, because it's you know. And those type of conversations. Everything we're doing is fact finding, is data gathering in terms of I want to ask them questions to hear their responses, not because I'm trying to write down their number and hold them to it. Can they talk the same language? If I'm going to pay them to come, do that work? Yeah, right. So having those conversations, I think, really raises the green or red flags. And if you're not getting either, keep talking, keep asking the questions. If you're not, you should be kind of leaning. This guy's going to be killer or I don't know.
Speaker 2:The other thing I'd say is a lot of times when you're looking for crews you're looking too late, because when guys are hunting for crews, it's because usually I've got a job that needs to start Monday. I've got three jobs that all said yes. It's because usually I've got a job that needs to start Monday. I've got three jobs that all said yes, that I got to get going and my current crews are booked, so I need to find someone. So because of that, you let the wrong crew in, because it's like, hey, I got to find someone and this dude's got a tool belt on and so you want to work. Great, here's your work order. Go get out there and get the work done.
Speaker 2:And you haven't done the due diligence to say no. I mean, this is like we we we've talked about plenty of times when we're hiring project managers. Most of the time we're hiring PMs when we've got too much work and we just have to hire someone because if I hire that guy, then I can invoice another a hundred grand a month and we'll make a lot more money. And then we just say yes, because it's a weight off my shoulder. So I'm going to hire the wrong person because it makes my job easier. And I'm not hiring the wrong person.
Speaker 2:I'm gambling a little bit more than I should and I should say you know what? I'm going to interview six, seven different crews and I'm going to pick the two that I really like and I'm going to bring those onto a job. Well, that that takes weeks, right, that's not a two day process to do that. So if you spend the time, build that bullpen ahead of time, have these conversations and make vendor and crew finding a regular thing, even when you don't need it because we're about to grow, especially going into the winter season, early spring, before you're busy, hunt these crews, get a roster, get a bullpen that you can call in and say hey, hey, fred, I talked to you three months ago. I got a job. I'd love to try you out on it. Right, and that is how we really stay away from the red flag guys.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you got to pick your spots Like it. Clients don't want to know that they're a guinea pig for a new crew. Yes, so in the in this scenario I'm in right now, there's an insurance job. The clients aren't living aren't living there, they're, they're offsite. And so I've had the opportunity to bring in like a handful of new crews to go give me numbers on this project and I'm probably only going to use one of these guys, and not even for the full project. I'm going to have them do one or two components to try them out. But I've gathered pricing from like three different new crews because I've had this project that they can just go in and do an estimate and I have an exactimate to give them an exact thing. This is, I don't give them the exactimate, but I'm telling them this is exactly what I need.
Speaker 1:We know our quantities and line items, yeah, so, like that's, you got to look for the opportunities to gather that information in a way that's not going to give you more of a headache, like, yeah, having to talk with the client about hey, yeah, this is a new crew, or blah, blah, blah, blah. They don't need to, they don't need to have stress about all that. I'm going to make sure that the right person is doing the job, but I'm always going to be wanting to test the waters with new guys and see if there's a possible fit.
Speaker 2:I would say, if you're listening to this, write this down, burn it in your brain. When you get an investor property with no family or homeowner living in it, have new crews come visit it. Anytime you get an investor property, I'm going to try to find one or two crews that come look at it and give me pricing and talk through it. I'm going to test a new crew out on that. Even if I don't need a new crew, let's test one out on that investor property. Those are the the the absolute best way to to mitigate risk with crews, because they can screw it up and I can swoop in and we'll talk about this next as to how to monitor them once they start, yeah, but I can swoop in and fire them and I don't have to explain myself to anybody, right? I'm going to build in a little budget or extra fluff on my Gantt chart.
Speaker 1:You probably need to explain it to them. You're just like walking, like you're fired. I'm out.
Speaker 2:But, that being said, it allows you to go in and give them a little more leash to see if they're going to actually resolve the issues. And also some coaching right. We'll talk about that towards the end of this, of when do you coach a guy up versus when do you fire him right. And so investor properties if that comes across your desk, find a new crew. Your goal is, on every investor property, I'm going to test a new crew. I'm at least going to have them walk in and price it. That's an ideal time. Even if you don't need a crew to bring on and build up that bullpen, you don't want them walking through the house that you're doing a new kitchen where the homeowners pouring their coffee at 8am and you got three crews that are walking through there that you've never met before. That's not a that's not a good way to test a crew. Um, I, I.
Speaker 2:I met with one of my coaching partners yesterday and we were talking about a job. It was a two phase job. Phase one was a 50,000, phase two, I think, is 80,000. He brought on a new crew from Facebook, found them, talked to them, brought them in. They just I mean, it was not good, it didn't go well, and I actually helped him find this crew. So it's partially my fault, but it went South. He didn't onboard them. Well, I'm guessing he didn't bring them into the office, sit down, talk through processes, but just tried them out, went, sent them, had it, had it going. Because of that, he replaced them, pulled them off, lost a little bit of cash, brought another crew in.
Speaker 2:Because of that, though, we're at the end of phase one and he's he's like I can't do phase two with this client Cause I lost all the trust. The trust is gone. Uh, I've rebuilt some of it, but she's won't stop micromanaging. She won't stop absolutely like every night, sending me texts of this, this and this is wrong. It's like, well, I'm not even your project manager, like, let's talk to your project manager about this, but it's because that trust was broken. So he's probably losing an $80,000 job by his choice because he brought the wrong crew in without doing it right on the front end. He lost money on that phase one and probably won't want it. It's choosing not to do phase two because the trust is gone with the client. So again, word to the wise don't try, don't start them on the client's jobs unless you know, you've tested, you've checked them out, you've done a lot of due diligence, you've met with them, you've walked job sites with them, done all of that stuff, and then we're going to micromanage them when they start on that job.
Speaker 2:So, james, let's walk through your first job. You're bringing the crew on. You sat them, you onboarded them, you have a skills assessment. You feel on. You sat them, you onboarded them, you have a skills assessment. You feel comfortable. You've had those conversations. These guys seem that they know what they're talking about. You're excited about using them. You've got a small homeowner project. We're doing a basement for a homeowner.
Speaker 2:Let's say, how do you start the crew and how do you manage them on that first job? How many times are you visiting? What are you asking from them? Or you know what, when do you have like check-ins? How do you start them on like front end processes? Cause I think one thing that guys miss is what do we do front end walk with them and what? How are we setting those expectations with them? Because with my crews that have been here for two years, I sent them a work order. I walk the house, I show them what they're doing and they're off and running and then you get a new crew in here. You can't do that, so talk me through how you do that with a new crew coming on site.
Speaker 1:Well, the first thing is we have like a front-end walk that we do at the start of every project. So, even with our new crews or with our old crews, we still do it. It's just not as in depth because they kind of already know the game. But a day, a couple of days before demo starts, we're bringing the crew in. You know, depending on what the project is, you got the demo guy and the framing guy typically are going to be the ones on site and you're going to kind of walk them through. Hey, this is, this is what we're doing. This is where we want to put protections, this is where we want to protect the floor. This is where we want to do a zip wall because of the dust. This is where we're going to cut our tile. Or this is where we're going to cut floor and we're going to have a cut station. We're not going to just bring your little dremel in and cut in every room that you need to. We're going to centralize the dust location. We're going to centralize where we're using Wash the brushes out.
Speaker 1:Where are we going to wash the brushes out? Where are we going to dump out paint? Can we dump out paint? There's these little things that always end up being problems that turn into huge problems, like, oh, a client calls and says these guys are pouring paint down the drain. They're not pouring paint down the drain, they washed their brushes out and they poured. My whole front yard is white. My whole front yard is white. My bushes are striped because they painted the louvered shutters. There's all those random things. So you got to talk through those little things before you start a project. Now, with a new crew, you're doing that, but then you're also giving them the the next step. So, hey, we're here walking on Friday, monday, you guys are starting at what time? And you let them be part of this. You know what time can you start.
Speaker 2:It's a partnership, right, it's a partnership Like. When are we?
Speaker 1:starting. You know 9, 9.30. Okay, great, let's say 9.30. You guys are going to be here by 9.30, getting started. Great, You're there. You're there at 9 o'clock or 9.30. You know, if you want to get there early, great, but you want to be there to see if they're going to show up. When they say they're going to show up, that's number one. Are they showing up? This is your first job with them.
Speaker 1:It's like someone showing up late to a job interview or their first day of work Not a good show. There might be a good reason for it if they are, but you're expecting to see them there within 10, 15 minutes of that time. You'd really like them to be there at that time. But trip, traffic, there's all these things. It's like, you know, there's an understandable, negotiable amount of time. Yeah, um, really, I'm just there to make sure they're getting started and that they've got. How many guys are you gonna have with you? Like that's a big one. Yeah, if you're there with three guys for the demo walk, but then on day one you show up and it's just you or it's just one of your guys, that's a problem, cause you showed me that you were going to be there with three people and you came with one to do a job that's going to take.
Speaker 2:that should have three days for two on site for yeah.
Speaker 1:Three days for three guys or five guys. Yeah, um, so that's that's day one. At the end of that day, I'm coming back. Yeah, I want to see what they've accomplished in that one day. I want to see how they plan on leaving the job site. I want to see how they have their tools. Are we centralized or do we have little rabbit trail piles everywhere around the house? Do we have little rabbit trail piles everywhere around the house? If I see that that's day one, I'm getting in there and I'm saying, hey, I get, this is kind of normal. I don't do it like this. All of your tools need to be in the place we talked about. That's our staging area. Someone's living here. They have kids. You're not leaving Dremels. You're not leaving your saws. You're not leaving your hammers. You're not leaving screws on the ground for people to walk on and scrape the floors.
Speaker 1:Don't leave your hammer. Stop putting your hammer on the countertop. Those are new countertops, all of that stuff that is just so standard. I mean, these guys are working in these scenarios constantly and so it's very easy to just lay something down somewhere. But what they don't get, or what they don't think about, think about is what if you scratch that countertop? Are you going to pay the $2,500 to have those replaced Because the client's not going to be okay with like, ah man, I wish you didn't scratch my countertop. Like you're going to have to pay for it to be replaced.
Speaker 2:Let me add a couple of things before you keep going. Number one I like to. I like to also capture on my front walk a couple of things. First off, I always use the metaphor of it's the first couple of weeks of being a new teacher in a new class. I'm going to be very strict and not be okay with stuff that maybe I would be a little more lenient on. Month two, month three, yeah, something that, yeah, right, I'm going to set that bar to make sure.
Speaker 2:Number two whatever they do day one or show up day one, I have been caught making excuses, so I hope that it works with them instead of saying this is the best, that they're best foot forward. Day one working with me. They show up with three guys short and they show up 30 minutes late and this is the first day meeting me. What's two weeks in going to be? So I need to learn to not make excuses day one for them If they can't show up on time. Looking right with the guys that they're supposed to bring to their very first job, interview job with me, I'm almost cutting them immediately because it doesn't get better from there. And thirdly, when I'm doing the conversation with them, I've got a printed out work order with their dollars on it and how much I'm paying them. And my conversation with them is not here's the work, here's the money. We good with that, cool.
Speaker 2:Now let me tell you everything else I want you to do. What I like to talk about is hey, just so you know, part of this dollars is you're picking up your own materials. I'm paying you to get your own materials at Home Depot. I'm going to do the first purchase. We're talking about that how they do those purchases but part of the money I'm paying you is that you're going to pick up'll do the phone sales. I'll do that. So I talk them through that. But I also say, listen. Also part of this is that I want you to spend 30 minutes at end of the day cleaning my job sites. I want it cleaned up, I want tidied up, like you're saying. I want walkways, I want imagine my homeowner with their kids are walking through here. I don't care if it's an investment. And so all of the bars that I'm setting for expectations, the end of the day procedures, the send me photos, all that stuff I'm trying to build into the dollars that I'm paying them for the job when it's not like Clark asked so many, like I got to do so much extra work for him. No, that's part of the dollars. I'm expecting you to do that for this pay, and if you don't do that, that's part of the task on your work order. So for me it's, it's setting that up.
Speaker 2:And then finally, my last, my, my last comment on it is when I'm doing that front walk in the morning and I'm know I'm coming back at the end of the day, I tell them that and I say so what do you think you're getting done today? Tell me what's getting completed. What's your expectation by when I come back here at five will be completed. Well, we'll have the demo. A hundred percent. I'm going to try to get a couple of walls framed up before we get out of here.
Speaker 2:Cool, perfect, I'll see you at five, right, and so, that way I can see if they can actually hit their timeline on a single day, much less a three week project, right, and so if I, if I, start having them commit to small pieces, what are you going to be done today? What does by Friday to small pieces? What are you going to be done today? What does by Friday should this job look like. Here's my timeline. I have you out here for two weeks. Where can you be here by Friday? What about by Wednesday? Where are we going to be at? What about by the end of the today?
Speaker 2:Trying to help help me understand if they can actually set timelines and hit them and that way, when I come back at five, it's not two weeks later, it's eight hours later that I can see if they did eight hours worth of the work that they committed to. Yeah, so sorry, go ahead. So you've done that. You've come back, you've checked in at five. Give me a good scenario and a bad scenario what you do at five. You show up there for for a walk. They've done half of what they were supposed to do. What's your conversation with them at that point?
Speaker 1:Where what happened? What roadblocks did you run into that kept you from completing 50% of the work that you thought you were going to complete? And it's not like a nail in the coffin. There might be legitimate things like well, we ran into this, which I think might be a change order that you need to talk with a client about, great, did you talk with the client about it? No, great, perfect, thank you, that's exactly what you should do. Talk to me about it.
Speaker 1:I wish you would have called me when it happened. That way we could have maybe gotten it expedited, gotten everything done that we needed to get done, and I could have called the client and dealt with that. But show me what the issue is. Great, that's a pretty good scenario. Bad scenario would be they spoke with the client about it. They had a lot of conversations with the client. A couple of things got added to their scope, in their minds, that they did instead of the work that I sent them a work order for, and the homeowner just asked him to do a couple things. And then you're like, talk with the homeowner and they're like, oh, I didn't expect them to do it, I just kind of talked about it.
Speaker 2:I was wondering about if they could, yeah.
Speaker 1:But really, for the first day it really comes down to me is like it's more important to me that the job looks respected. Yeah, because you can. Things can be slow, things can happen that impede progress and I think, for the most part, so long as you have a legitimate explanation for a client, their understanding of of that they're not understanding of their house being disrespected. They're spending 20, 30, 40, $50,000 on a renovation and the people in their home aren't respecting their home is a major issue. Even if you're the fastest crew on earth, even if the work is top notch, if you just walk in there and you leave, you know you leave pee and poop in the toilet every time. That's a problem and that's not silly. That's like a thing Like guys like forget that this is a home. That's why I started getting porta potties for all my jobs. It's like I'm not dealing with it anymore. I'm not dealing with the dude dropping his tool belt on the floor and cracking a tile. It just is always a problem. So I put a port-a-potty on the job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the goal is in that first week of I will know by end of day two if they're going to be a long-term crew with me and at that point, if they are not, I'm making a game plan on this job or how, how am I going to micromanage them on this job? If they are, I'm not just going to trust them from there, right, I'm going to keep checking in. I think the first crew for the first job, I'm probably there almost every day, um, and I'm also, like I said earlier, I'm setting expectations on days. By Wednesday, where are we going to be at Cause I want, uh, uh, a homeowner doesn't know speed, but the speed is what's going to kill them and me, right. So, if they, if I'm paying them enough for five days of workout here for him and his two guys he's bringing with them, great, if he turns it into two weeks, he's going to get pissed. His, his quality is going to go down and he's going to be begging for more money. If I can help him stay on time and get efficient and be done in a week, he's happy with that pay. So it's not just my timeline that I'm trying to stay on top of, it's also, this guy's not going to make enough money with me if he doesn't stay slowly, right, so I'm sending all those tones and I'm staying on top of them on their first job, almost every single day.
Speaker 2:Check it, I'm there, I'm on site. If I can't make it, send me photos. How to go today. What's what's going on, you know, and I tell them the first job, I'm riding you like the first job. I'm going to make sure that this is well as we build trust together. I'm not going to be on top of you this much, but for right now, I need to make sure that this is a good partnership. Right, and so they're like cool, I get it, I get it, totally understand. Um, all right.
Speaker 2:Lastly, what's the difference of coaching them up versus firing them? When do you, when it's like you get to the job site? They were, you know they're supposed to bring three guys. They only brought two. They showed up a little bit late, they didn't really clean up at the end of the day, how much rope are you giving them after after kind of strike one or strike two? Right where? Where are you coaching them versus where are you? Hey guys, let's pack it up, let's call it. Let's get you out of here. I got another crew coming in on thursday um, that's a, I think a really there.
Speaker 1:That's where the art comes in, because there's guys that, like jaime, is a great example. Yeah, uh, honest guy and hard worker and hungry, like wanted to do the work, like wanted to take on things.
Speaker 2:It's almost attitude is the most important thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like you walk in there and there's stuff that you don't like and you're like, hey, we need to talk about this. And you're talking through it and they're like, yeah, yep, you're right, yeah, I agree with you, or here's what happened, but I'm not happy with it either. I think you're right, like, not that like you need to be right about everything, but it's your job and you're it's your client, and so they need to. They need to be able to understand that their perspective isn't the be all end all that. Yeah, that you and your client's perspective really is what they need to be trying to achieve. Yeah, and if they're willing to own their mistakes and you can see that they're, like, honestly working at solving those problems, which in one or two days, you can still see when you had an issue day one and you mention it and then they come back day two and they solve that issue or they rectify their behavior. They show up early instead of being 15 minutes late. They throw all of their food trash breakfast out in the trash can and not just like randomly around the house, like you asked him, not to Little. Things like that go a long way, because they're just these rote memorizational things that people just fall into. If they will pick up on the small things and understand that you're serious and they are working at rectifying those things.
Speaker 1:I'm in to try and train, but that only goes so far. And so Jaime, again great example. We were in the middle of a project. Things kept going awry. He hired guys that were working with him and for him that he didn't know very well, but he was there the whole time, so that's fine. It kept not working out and there was issues that kept popping up and finally it was like hey, man, this is not a no forever and this isn't like a a burning bridges type thing, but I don't think that this is working out. I think you need more time. I think you just need more experience under your belt. So I'm going to get somebody to come in and take over this project, but I don't want to um, I don't want this to be over. I just think that, like, I need you to get some more experience and we should reconvene. Yeah, like two years later he ended up getting back in the fold. He got a lot more experience. He was like the go-to guy, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he came and I think that's right. I think level one is attitude. If you've got a this is my job site, so it goes the way I say attitude, then you're not going to be here. It's not yours, it's ours, it's a partnership here and I've got strict instructions that we've promised the homeowner, so that's what we're going to do here, right? If they can't have that attitude, then they're gone Once they have the, okay, yeah, if it's what you need me to do, I can do that. The next level is do they have the I hate to say it the IQ to take what you say and do it right? Like, oh, yeah, I forgot, you wanted me to clean, guy, come on. Like we talked about this two days in a row, this day three, and you still have trash all over the place.
Speaker 2:And then the third layer is skills, and I think that was the high-main thing. Like you, just, you're too green, you don't know. Like I can't be your superintendent, I can't be the person telling you that we got to put those studs 16 on center, right? Like I can't, if you don't know this stuff. I can't coach you on construction. I can coach you on how our job sites. I can coach you on what an order of operations, what you should be doing. Let's, let's. Why did you go to Home Depot three times yesterday? Let's get that down to one trip. Let's look at how we invent, like, I can coach on that stuff If you've got a good attitude. I can't teach you construction, and so I think it's kind of those three layers Attitudes they're great. And so I think it's kind of those three layers Attitudes there are great. The ability to learn from what we're talking about and implement it great. Lastly, do you have the skills to do that? If we can hit all of those things, I'll coach you all day long. We'll keep working with you. You'll be here and, like Jaime, I might put you on the shelf. I might use you for one-off jobs that are low fruit that I know you can. You can knock out. I'm not going to burn that bridge. If you've got the good attitude and you're kind of learning but you don't have the other skills, like, let's keep working and I might have one or two jobs here and there for you and as you grow, come back. You know, come back. So I think that's it. I think I need that attitude, but then the other two things are quickly falling behind the attitude with it All right.
Speaker 2:Next week we're going to be covering it's a coaching cut where we're going to be. I'm talking about how to fire a crew off a job site. So if they go sideways, if you're in a job, it's not going well, they're going. You know, it's one of those crews that you're like these guys are not good. I got to get rid of them. What do I do? So we've got some ways to do that, some paperwork you got to do, the proper way to handle it and how to defend yourself If they try to put a lien on the property. We're going to talk about that all next week. Um, that's it for this show today. If you want to have any conversations, go to contractor cutscom or pro truck 360.com.
Speaker 2:Also, we are about to launch uh our our signups for the retreat in January. We are doing three free coaching sessions. If you're coming on the retreat, I'm going to help you close out your 2025 year. We're going to do three sessions to close out 2025 as part of your coming on the retreat. So if you want to come on the retreat, get signed up now so we can get you into those coaching sessions so you're ready to launch in 2026. On the retreat, thanks for joining me. We'll see you guys next week. Bye, bye.
