Contractor Cuts
Join the ProStruct360 team on the Contractor Cuts podcast as we delve into the ins and outs of building and sustaining a thriving contracting business. Gain valuable insights and actionable tips from our experts who have successfully grown their own contracting company from the ground up.
Our show is dedicated to helping contractors like you unlock the secrets to increased profitability, efficient organization, and seamless processes within your company. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting out, our episodes cover key topics essential for your business growth and long-term success.
Make the most of your time between job sites by tuning in to our podcast and learn firsthand how to navigate the challenges of the contracting industry. Get ready to transform your business with valuable information that can potentially change the trajectory of your success.
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Contractor Cuts
How To Find Subcontractors & Keep Your Pricing Updated
What if you could transform your contracting business by mastering the art of finding and managing subcontractors effectively? On Contractor Cuts, we explore the pivotal moments when it's time to seek new crews, focusing on key indicators such as rising costs, trust issues, and business growth. This episode promises to arm you with the knowledge to proactively address these needs, steering clear of those dreaded last-minute scrambles. We delve into practical strategies for sourcing subcontractors, harnessing technology for pricing precision, and crafting comprehensive bid packets that attract the right talent. You'll gain insights from our experiences to help you build more efficient and successful subcontractor relationships.
Choosing the right vendor isn't just a task—it's a strategic move that can define your project's success. We dissect the nuances of vendor selection, from the strategic choice between hiring a professional company versus an independent contractor, to the timing and tactics of establishing solid vendor relationships. Our discussion touches on the common pitfalls contractors face, like unwittingly becoming a middleman, and underscores the importance of leadership and communication in building powerful, all-star teams. Packed with actionable advice on organizing and preparing for vendor meetings, this episode equips you to seamlessly manage projects and foster growth in your contracting business.
Struggling to grow your contracting business? The Foundations Program is designed to help contractors break free from the chaos and build a business that runs smoothly. You’ll get a customized training program, 1-on-1 coaching, and access to a full paperwork database—including contracts and the Client Engagement Agreement. Join the Foundations Program today! 🚀
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Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.
Speaker 2:Alright, welcome to.
Speaker 2:Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner, I'm James McConnell. Thanks for joining us again this week. So today we are talking about how, when, where to find subs. This is a question we get asked a lot. We've covered it a couple other podcasts.
Speaker 2:But I think taking a deeper look on when and actually how we're doing it is important, because a lot of times we see guys do it wrong all the time. But we've done it wrong too, and so we want to dive into when you're looking for them, when you should be cued in to say, hey, I think I'm going to start looking for a second framer, I think I'm going to go look for a new architect. When are we doing that? What's triggering that? And then what's our game plan to go find them?
Speaker 2:A lot of times it's I'm sitting at my computer, I just got to figure out and I'm just going to go hunt it down. So, yeah, it's, it's literally I need one. I don't know where to find one, and there's not a home Depot store that you can go pick up a framer off the shelf. There's not an orchard where you can go pluck framers off of a framer yard. Show me that tree. So when we're doing that, though, like when let's start? Let's start at the beginning, the when do you start looking? So let's you can use some examples or whatever you want to do. But thank you, yeah, absolutely I'll give you permission and we won't, really we won't cut it, you get one.
Speaker 2:That's really cool. Yeah, absolutely. So when do you start looking for a new crew? I mean, obviously, if you're getting started and you don't have a framer, a plumber, electrician, you got to find one. But what triggers you to say, hey, I think I need a second, I think I need to shop this guy a little bit more and find, find some more.
Speaker 1:What are what are guiding you into that decision? Um well, first and foremost, thank you, and the Holy spirit guides me. Um the the you. Everybody knows when they need a new person, you get. You're like man, this numbers keep coming back from this frame where they're too high, yeah, and you say a thousand times, and it's not until it gets to a place where you're risking landing jobs because of some of these trades that have gotten comfortable. Maybe you just you got to get them a little bit more honest. It doesn't mean you need to move on from them, but it might mean you need to gather some other bids and see if you're paying fair market value. Yeah, because you know you got to walk a line between your subs or your product. You know we say that all the time there's multiple products, but your subs are definitely part of your product, subs are definitely part of your product and if you're not managing and making sure that you're paying fair market value, you're going to. I'm all off on a tangent here. I've lost my path.
Speaker 2:No, but you're right. It's like well, first off, back up. There's three triggers for me on when to find one. Number one what you're talking about right now the money. This guy keeps increasing his pricing. I feel like I'm losing bids because of the cost of this trade. That's number one for me, and that's what you're talking about right now is that side of it. This number two is I don't trust this group. They don't show up on time. I've caught them lying to me. I just I've got to watch my back. They're good, they're cheap, but I don't trust them, and so I need to start looking, or I'm growing and that's number three I need.
Speaker 1:I need another crew. I can't I can't anymore be handcuffed to this one, ideally.
Speaker 2:That third one is why we're looking right. So I've got this framing crew. I love them, they're great, but I need a second because I'm now running two to three new builds at a time instead of just one at a time. So that's the third one, which is the goal growth. The first two are they're too expensive or I don't trust them. That's going to happen and that's a little more of an urgency in terms of finding a new crew. But the third one I'm growing. The problem that we see with most contractors is we make that decision. It's time to find a new crew. Way too late. Yeah, we, it is a reactive fire. I got to fight. I got to get rid of this crew because it didn't show up. I can need a new paint painter by Monday. Crap, who do you got All right, let's try them out. Yeah, right, and so it's this, this uh fire drill of finding a new crew, because I've got a need that I got to fill, I think um, the how is a little bit convoluted because there's things that you should.
Speaker 1:I think, probably a more important sorry, I'm leaning back again A more important question is what are the things you should be doing in conjunction with seeking out new crews? This is a spot where you can get into your software, update your pricing, the thing that I always do and I didn't used to do this, but I create bid packets. I create bid packets for any trade that I'm trying to get numbers from. This isn't going to be like soups, like, sometimes you'll have an actual architectural drawing set that you can use. Most of the time I don't start out with that. People don't have drawings when they come to me, so I'll create. You know, I'll take a. I'll get a picture of the house, you know from Google earth. I'll draw on it with what is the proposed addition just rough understanding and I'll send that to the architect or I'll send that to the framer. I might, you know, try and draw something out a little bit more detailed for the framer of like, we're expecting it to be a hip roof. We're going to be coming. You know it's 200 square foot addition, but we're doing it's all stick built. You know, giving them the type of information they're going to need and you send that. You create that packet and now you can send that packet out to everybody. Like you build it out to where your electrician can get value out of it. So build a bid packet that makes a functional sense for all the trades that you need, and you might need to break out two or three different bid packets. You can figure it out. Different jobs might require different complexity, but you build that out and you can send it to everybody. You're you're fishing with a wider net. So, yeah, you're going to have to stay on top of some of those folks, but you'll get them coming in.
Speaker 1:And the way that I also put that put what I also put in the bid packet is how do I want them to give me the bid? Yeah, because I bid my projects out differently than maybe you do, maybe than the next guy. I want to know, you know, if you're doing my foundation. If you're doing my concrete for the foundation, you're probably going to be doing my driveway too. I need you to do the piers. I need you to do the concrete. You know the broom finish, you know whatever it's going to be.
Speaker 1:I want those things broken out in the way that I'm going to put them in my estimate, because I need my numbers to be accurate. I don't need to find out, you know, after they've done 50% of the project, that this piece or this component wasn't included. Yeah, you need to be really diligent about uh, about that on the front end, and that tells the crews and the subs that you're engaging with, what kind of operation you are. Don't leave room for gray area of how do you operate. Yeah, immediately, get into it with them. Like this is how I operate, this is how I pay work orders. You need to have work orders or you're not getting paid.
Speaker 1:You know you don't have to, you know be, a jerk about it, but you got to let them know how you operate so they know if they're a good fit for you, and vice versa.
Speaker 2:And I think it's tough because this is, there's an art to it, it's not just a science. And so if I'm looking for a roofer, I'm how quickly can you do it? What jobs have you done? What's your price per square and what type of products do you offer? If I'm selecting from, from your products, right? And so that's a little bit different of a conversation than even a framer who's like well, it's a price per square foot of that property, or price per linear foot of the walls I'm framing, or right? There's a bunch of different ways you can do it. The hip roofs and all the like, the details and the levels. Who's buying them? Like, there's a lot of conversations. That which is different than the architect, right? How does our? And so every crew and vendor has a different conversation on bringing them, on understanding pricing. But we're dating, right, it's having the conversation. Is this something that I want to marry this guy? Are we? Are we compatible in terms of working together?
Speaker 1:do you have workman's comp? No, are you willing to get it? No, okay, all right cool, cool.
Speaker 2:Well, we do, and you need to have it if we have right. And so there's. There's those type of the speed dating conversations. I think, backing up from there, though, what triggers you to start those calls and start doing that? I mean, I think it's like you are really good at seeing what's coming. Think back to when you weren't as good as that and we were kind of reactively looking for new crews. You weren't as good as that and we were kind of reactively looking for new crews. What's what's making you pick up the phone to start hunting people down? And actually, how do you start those conversations with a new frame or with a concrete company? How do we find them like before even talking about pricing with them?
Speaker 1:um, so google is great, yeah, um, and this really goes into like what's your model? Because you can find a, you can find a roofer. There's a thousand roofers. But are you gonna pay? You know, top dollar for a company, that that's all they do. You know we're magnum roofers like that's all we do. You know you're gonna pay a premium. You're not getting Tim that knows how to do roofs and has been doing it for 12 years and like that's your roof guy, you're going to pay. You're going to pay him less than you're paying this other company.
Speaker 1:However, if you don't have Tim and you don't have a great understanding of how to do this correctly, pay the extra money of how to do this correctly. Pay the extra money. Don't let that be a headache. Take 5% there, take 0% there. If you're in a pinch and you know that that's a critical component of your project and you're already through due diligence or whatever, and someone's coming to you with a change order, you don't have time to find another career. You're about to start. You might have to make that call, but that's. I think people, people are flagged and I am flagged or was flagged when the budget is in jeopardy. Yeah, you've gotten some bids back. Oh, this one was a little too high, that's okay. There's a lot more left in the bid. Oh, this one was higher too. Oh, this one was higher too. Now you're trying to find five different trades to supplement your project, and that's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:If you're looking for new vendors and subs after a bid is completed, you're already too late. In my mind, it's I need to have those relationships. I need to have those conversations going prior to bidding. If I don't know what I'm bidding, I mean in an ideal world.
Speaker 1:You're engaging with a client and they're talking about the project and you're building it out and you're like we need a septic guy Because this is going to be on septic and I don't have a good one. The last guy we used was just totally random. I'll call him, I'll get a bid from him, but I'm going to get a couple other ones. Like you just need to lean into the fact that part of your job if this is part of your role is bringing in trades that can make you successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, and I think what you said a second ago it depends on your model. What that means is every contracting company and every contractor operates a little differently. So with a company that is model-based, that is more of a straight general contractor, new construction cost-plus basis, they're looking for the fully rounded professional teams that I'm subbing out to. I'm cost plus, I want the best product. I want to not manage the roofing installation, I want to manage the roofing company that's managing the roof installation Versus the other side of it.
Speaker 2:On the other side of the pendulum is I'm swinging a hammer, I'm bringing guys in to help me. I'm going to be managing the roof. I'm going to order the materials. I'm going to be managing the roof. I'm going to order the materials. I'm going to get a dumpster there, I'm going to have my crew rip it off and some other guys come in. That is a different model totally than the first one, and so that model, it's a totally different crew that I'm looking for than a finely tuned roofing company. And so understanding what and how we offer and what product we're offering as a company is the very first decision before figuring out what vendors I need to find.
Speaker 1:And so, going back to the original question, if you are, if you're looking for that professional crew like Google and Google my business is a great place to look. You're going to get a whole spectrum. But you it's reasonable to suspect that somebody that has a website that has a Google business presence that's advertising has more overhead than Tim. So you know what you're looking for. And if you're looking for Tim, then you're going to quick trip in the morning, you're going to racetrack in the morning and if you're not, I don't know if these are the morning. You're going to Racetrack in the morning and if you're not, I don't know if these are. They're national right. Racetrack and Quick Trip, whatever Marathon, whatever your big gas station is that everybody shows up at 630 in the morning to get their Rooster Booster and their dip and their taquito and their gas. Like the guys are all there Home Depot early in the morning. Don't go midday. That's when you know Tom from next door is getting his gutter guards like that. You don't need him. You need the guys that are in there in the morning, the working dudes.
Speaker 1:Facebook is a good place and everybody knows these, but like the actual engaging with that crew is where the meat is, like you can find them anywhere but engaging with them and knowing and giving them hey, this is how I want you to break out my pricing, like we talked about, like that's a big one. People will send that out and they'll start the conversation. They'll give you back a big round number $10,000. You're like okay, what does this include? What does it not include Is this are you doing the sub floor? Are you doing the decking for the roofers? Are you leaving that for the roofer? You need to map out how you want them to give you that bid. And if they can't give you that bid in that way, or they don't even attempt to give them another shot, but if, if they're not going to play ball, don't waste your time because they'll never play ball.
Speaker 2:Well, I think if you take one thing away from this podcast, it would be the way that I see guys look for vendors is checking a box. Great Okay, I got just. I got it, fine I got reached out to one.
Speaker 2:I got like I need a painter. I called one. He's going to come do this. We kind of talked about a price so we'll see how it goes, box checked. That is a different mindset attitude and a lot more risky than finding a sub like you're hiring an employee Like you're. I need to make sure they're good. I need them to bid it this way. I need to check them out. I'm going on five dates before I decide if we're going to move to the next stage and so if you're doing anything, it is.
Speaker 2:I am going to time block next week for one hour to contact five new painters. I'm going to talk to them. I'm going to have this type of an interview with them of this is what I'm looking for, this is how I pay, this is what I expect. How do you operate? Tell me about kind of your normal customers. And if they're not willing to have those conversations with you, imagine three months down the road when you're trying to negotiate, them coming back out because they messed something up, yeah, and so having that interview treating a vendor like I am making a large financial gamble because you are. If I hire a painter because his pricing look good and he comes out and screws up a house I now have to repaint it's going to cost me twice as much. And so that sort of understanding of I'm not just checking a box, I got another guy who's going to do it Great, let's keep going.
Speaker 2:Verse, I'm going to. I'm going to ask three of my plumbers if any of them know an electrician. I'm going to ask the guy at Home Depot who's in the electrical department. Do you know anybody that's good around this area? I'm going to do research and hunt that person down. Like it is, my, it is. My money is dependent on it because it is Though we don't treat it that way Most of the time where it's like girl, cool, you got a buddy that paints houses Great, can you come do my house?
Speaker 2:Great, perfect, and that works sometimes, but most of the time you're going to end up in a worse off financial spot. You have this guy putting a lien on the house. You have all sorts of things happening because you didn't do the interview, you didn't do the intake, as we've talked about in old past podcasts the intake process to go through the paperwork, or how we operate, how they have an agreement as to this is the insurance you need to work for us. This is what we require you to be dressed, as. This is how you deal with referrals. You don't talk to my. All of that stuff has to be done on the intake, but you also have to find a company willing to come and sit down and agree to this stuff.
Speaker 2:And so there's. If you're going through it, do not check a box because you need to find someone. Make it your part-time job hunting the right crew to find yeah, there's, there's also.
Speaker 1:You know, if it sounds too good to be true, it is like don't, don't get sucked into the hey man, I, I need, I've got so much stuff, I need a framer, I need a concrete guy, I need siding. You're talking, this guy's like yeah, I do, I do all of that. Yeah, that's great. Uh, can you meet me out on site? You drive out there, you're meeting with them. He's not going to do all of it, he only talks about a couple things. But I got a guy for this and I got a guy for that.
Speaker 1:Okay, now you're hiring a general contractor hiring a general contractor and when he's handling the framing and the sheet rock and his guy's doing the concrete and something gets screwed up with the concrete and you call the guy that you have contact with. I called and he's not answering. I'll let you know You've lost control. You've lost complete control, so don't. So. The low hanging fruit is there for a reason. You don't always need to take it.
Speaker 2:That was honestly one of my biggest issues with some of our project managers in the past, when I was more in the weeds with them.
Speaker 2:Using Window World instead of having somebody install our windows, yes, and subbing out the majority of the job to another company. And I'm like so that guy's project, managing his crews what are you doing? What do you mean? Well, what's your job here? Because he's running the crews, he's making sure things get done. Well, I don't need you as a project manager if I'm hiring this guy, right, and so it's. It's understanding. As a company, I'm not just subbing the whole thing out. I'm not finding a job, taking 10% off and just subbing it out to another company. There is no business model there. You can make some dollars doing that, but all you are is a middleman and you're bringing zero value to the, to the client at that point, because all you're doing is passing off to somebody else. The client gets to know that guy. That's who they're using in the future.
Speaker 1:That's who they're referring to their friends. It doesn't work subbing a whole job out to another gc. Yeah, like if, if you're a homeowner and you've hired a general contractor and your your experience and someone's, like how was it? Well, uh, window world came to do our windows, plum doctor came and did the plumbing. Uh, this other major company did the roof. Like so your general contract? Honestly, I think I probably really overpaid. He made four phone calls.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like you're not going to. Maybe you made money on that project, but that client's not going to. You're not building a company out of that. Yeah, it's like, well, I would just probably, if I could do it again, I'd probably just call those people yeah Right.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:So where the value add that you have is the management of those people, bringing the right ones in and ensuring that it's going to be a good product and so and having a relationship with those guys so that you can make the profit that you need to make and you're still within an industry standard price point, so that those clients know that they're they're getting fair market price.
Speaker 2:I think the only time that we were hiring, we were hiring vendors and subs that were also bringing guys that we didn't know or stuff like HVAC right, you're going to go install. You got an installer for the HVAC company but again, most of the time, even then we got the installers calling us, calling us as a project manager, on the phone. That's who my contact is. I need to know who's on my job sites. I need to know how to be able to pick up the phone and call the guy who's standing there smoking saying why are you smoking in my house? So I think understanding that side of it when I'm hunting for vendors is there's wrong vendors and right vendors that you're looking for, and how do we weed out those wrong ones is who's got the control? Who's got the decision-making? I need to own both of those things and also be able to say to you this is how much we're doing it for.
Speaker 2:This is the pricing. Can you hit that pricing? This is the expectations of it. This is how you get paid. Let me help you make more money. Another thing that we always tell contractors is you are good at business. You're building a business. Most of your subs aren't good at building a business, so the more structure that I put into this and can hold them accountable to, the better their business runs. Yeah, Right, and so if I can make my subs better, businessmen, larger companies, helping them grow, they're here for life, they're there, they understand it, and their business is getting better too because they're abiding by our systems and processes, and that's why you give.
Speaker 1:That's why you give, that's why you give people multiple chances. But there is, there is a point at which you need to say I need to stop banging my head up against a wall. This isn't happening, I need to move on from it. Yep, and like we've all had that kind of gut feeling. If you're, if your first inclination is to like, yeah, screw it. Like this, this guy doesn't know anything, this, that and the other You're probably you need to be a little bit less pessimistic. Like you need to give people a little bit more grace, a little bit more benefit of the doubt. Even if you don't know, you can help them become your all-star crew. We've done it a thousand times.
Speaker 2:And it's usually leadership issues. We've done it a thousand times and it's usually leadership issues. It's a lot less of the crew issue and more of you didn't tell them what you needed, what you wanted, and hold them accountable to it.
Speaker 1:You didn't set the table for yourself to have a good conversation, like and when I say that I mean don't go into those meetings with those vendors that you're trying to onboard without having notes, like all like on my calendar, I'll put it, I'm going to talk with the architect and in that calendar slot I'm writing notes in that thing all the time. Yeah, uh, you know, on Mondays and Fridays I look at my calendar and I'll update some notes so that when I have that meeting I've already thought through it a couple of different times and I know that conversation. So just prepare, it's very simple. You know stuff like that's really simple to do and it only takes, you know, five, 10 minutes. Like just sit down and think about what you want to convey and what. What documents do you actually need to have in a folder ready to send them? If you like their price, send them the sub agreement, get that going, because you're going to forget that. And then, when it comes time to pay them, you're like, oh shit, I didn't put them in the software.
Speaker 2:And then you're just running around chasing your tail again. Yeah, and just so you know, if you are in our coaching program, you get all that paperwork for free. That's part of what we provide is the backend paperwork to go with your system. So the subcontractor paperwork that you're talking about, how much is that program Good? There's a bunch of different options. Let's talk about this Now. Again, I'm not trying to do a sales pitch on it, but there are important paperwork as the sub-agreement, because our sub-agreement mirrors our client agreement, and so those two agreements say the same thing, two different directions. One is what I'm promising my customer. The other one is what I'm making my vendor promise me, and so we have accountability on both sides, to where I'm not stuck holding money. If the customer expected something because it was written on here. The vendor also has what is expected of him written in my paperwork.
Speaker 1:And I do all my work with my guys on Pinky Promises.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's, almost most of them are done Promise me.
Speaker 1:You promised me, you, pinky, promised me you'd be done by Wednesday.
Speaker 2:Hey promise you promised me, you, pinky, promised me you'd be done by Wednesday. So again, if you're, I would say if you were looking and your company, assessing your, your vendors and your labor and your subs and what do I need to do to grow this company? Start today, looking for more. You can never have too deep of a bench. The hard part is I don't have a job for you, but I want to talk to you about painting with us. It's easier to have a job that we can talk about and hire them for.
Speaker 2:But I'm going to not just put all my eggs in one basket. If I have a couple of jobs coming up, maybe I'm going to try a new painter on it, even though I'm not ready for it, even though I'm, I don't think that I'm in need of a second painter. I don't want all my eggs in that first painter's basket and I want to paint crews that I can now depend on. So I'm going to start. I'm going to give them the small job I got a small basement I need painted. I'm going to have them try that out and getting ahead of it to where, when we do get that growth in the company, I now have the guys to call that are sitting on my bench that I can pull out and say, hey, it's time to. I need you for this job, or you want, you want to get going with us?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you can talk to your crews about that. You don't like this does not mean you know, this person's win does not necessarily mean it's this person's loss. It's not a zero sum game. You can tell your crew hey, jesus David, he does our sheet rock and paint in Austin. He I could say to him hey, man, we got to. We were growing, I need to try somebody out on paint, but I need you ready to go in case he, you know, craps the bed. He's like great, sounds good. I'm like it's not a big project, a little little small thing. It's going to be a couple thousand dollars, but I'm not moving away from you, I just need more because we're growing. So it's a good thing for all of us. Yeah, he's cool. He's cool with that. You don't need to. You don't need to. You know, getting somebody else doesn't mean you're moving on from the next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well and it's. It's almost an accountability spot for the original they. They your eggs aren't in their basket anymore to where. I've had conversations with crews that are like they're like hey, you know, I feel like you aren't using us as much as you used to. That's true. I've got a crew that actually you know they show up on time and get done on time and if you can push more of that direction, I can, I can give you more work, right? I mean? Yeah, I mean, but 9 am and by 1130, you're rolling into my job sites.
Speaker 2:That's not OK and so if you can correct that, I want to keep using you. I love your product. You're really good at what you do. But if you can correct that, great. If not, I got my other guy I'm going to send out there. But I'm loyal to you. You're number one on my call list if you can start getting here on time or if this changes or if this changes, if you can start getting here on time or if this changes or if this changes.
Speaker 2:But they know that I've had those conversations. I'm very open and honest with the crews as to where they're falling short, in a kind growth leadership way of like hey, man, I just can't have you coming in late. Hey, every time you leave my job sites, there's about 5% left that you got to come back for. I'm not paying you extra to come back. Why don't you get those done? Do you need a checklist? Why don't I give you a checklist of stuff that I want you to look at before leaving here and so I can help grow them? But also, I've got this other guy that I'm pulling off the bench occasionally because you're starting to fail a little bit. So it allows you to make your current crews better, but also gives you an option to where you're not beholden to them, to where they're the king.
Speaker 2:You better, but also gives you an option to where you're not beholden to them, to where they're the king, and you've got an option to pivot if you need it. Exactly so, if you're listening to this, start building that bench, start building the depth. Assess your current crews which ones? If you're going to have to fire one, which one would it be? And let's start building that direction. I don't have a good painter, so let me hunt one down. I don't have a great flooring guy. Well, let's talk about that. Let's hunt some of those guys down and start building the depth to where, when we do get the growth as we start growing the company, I now have the availability to actually do that work. Right, and so it kind of goes hand in hand with the chicken or the egg. Do I find crews and then get work, or do I get work and then go find crews? The answer is find crews.
Speaker 1:Find crews and then get work.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can always have those conversations. You can always have hey. All right, I'm going to call you when I get one for you, Cause you don't have to.
Speaker 1:You're not paying them while you're waiting for the job to land. It's not like hiring a project manager, where you need to have work in the hopper to hire a project manager, or you're going to be burning 60 in cash, not 30. So, yeah you, you it, it hurts you none and it benefits you tenfold. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Find them, hunt them down, start building Shh. Hunt them down, damn and put them on a job. Try them out on a job. So all right, that's it for this one. We'll talk to you guys next week. All right, we'll talk to you guys next week.
