Contractor Cuts
Join the ProStruct360 team on the Contractor Cuts podcast as we delve into the ins and outs of building and sustaining a thriving contracting business. Gain valuable insights and actionable tips from our experts who have successfully grown their own contracting company from the ground up.
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Contractor Cuts
How to Land Every Client (That You Want)
How can you ensure every potential client becomes a signed contract? Join James McConnell and Clark Turner, on Contractor Cuts, where we unlock the secrets to mastering client relationships in the construction industry. Discover how a tailored intake process and understanding client priorities can transform initial contacts into signed contracts, especially for large-scale renovations or additions.
Building trust with clients is not just an art; it’s a strategy. We discuss the importance of offering industry knowledge, identifying client motivations, and assessing mutual fits to align visions and goals within budget constraints. Hear how the initial phone call can unveil potential red and green flags, guiding you to engage effectively with clients. Learn when to conduct a desk estimate and how setting boundaries early in client relationships can lead to profitable and respectful collaborations. Our approach ensures you navigate these conversations with confidence and clarity, setting the stage for successful project outcomes.
Prepare your clients financially before hammers start swinging. Discover how careful planning and financial understanding can prevent mid-project surprises. We explore strategies for generating comprehensive quotes and using resources to pull property data, building trust, and ensuring clients are informed. From discussing financing options to crafting the perfect estimate, we aim to equip you with the tools necessary for fostering robust client relationships that achieve project goals without budgetary constraints. Tune in to learn how these insights can elevate your business and secure every client you desire.
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Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner and I'm James McConnell Thanks for joining us again this week.
Speaker 2:So today we are talking about how to land every client that you want to land that you want. How to land every client that you want to land that you want. We're going to talk and dive deep into kind of intake. When someone calls, when we get an email, how do we handle that and what's the least amount of work to give the most amount of effort right in terms of converting a new client into signing documents with you? So, diving into that topic, James, let's walk through kind of a normal intake for you and I think baseline of this podcast.
Speaker 2:We aren't going to do small jobs. We're not going to do new builds. Let's do like the 50,000 to $200,000 renovation, new addition, kind of the heavy lifting stuff, Cause the smaller jobs are a little bit different, a little bit lighter. You can take kind of what we're talking about today and kind of the heavy lifting stuff, because the smaller jobs are a little bit different, a little bit lighter. You can take kind of what we're talking about today and kind of water it down and then the new construction is kind of a different animal altogether when we're talking about intake. So large-scale renovations, large-scale additions, that sort of thing, a six-figure job that we're doing. Let's walk through start until signature. Signature of a job. So when we get the first contact from a client come into the website, we get an email, we get a phone call, a pigeon carrier that comes into us. Right, what is the goal number one? What's the very first thing that you're doing when that first point of contact comes in?
Speaker 1:So and before we even get into it, I think there's this is probably not the most efficient way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's a lot more efficient ways to do it, but for getting the clients that you want, it's important to have, like, I think it's important to have a process that, uh, speaks to your strengths, speaks to the way that you like to operate. Yeah, so when we get a contact, initially, sometimes there's a lot of information and that's and that's great. Um, I used to like it in a specific way, but now I'm just like, put it however you want, because you learn things about people and how they give you their information. The type of information that they're giving you tells you what's important to them their knowledge of construction, their knowledge of construction, and so there's a lot you can learn in just letting them put their thoughts together.
Speaker 1:Some people will give you almost nothing and right off the bat I know that they're probably more old school they're not wanting to give you all their information up front. They probably want you to come out there before they give you anything, even their address somehow. But you already kind of know what you're getting into when somebody reaches out to you if you have that kind of process set up, yeah, somebody.
Speaker 2:A lot of people have the um you know intake form that you can kind of tell them what you want. And when you have an office manager, that's perfect. You need that of like. This is what I want you to take Someone calls, get this information, put it into the software, type it up, send it to me. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I think the step that I like to go to to really uh kind of customize and personalize the estimate for them is, uh, once I have that information, I'm going to to have a conversation with them, um, and hopefully I can put an estimate together even before that. But I never use that as like a bartering chip or a line in the sand to say like, well, I'm not going to, I'm not going to have a conversation with you until you give me this information. Maybe I'm getting that information from them on that phone call. But the whole goal is I don't want to step foot on site until I can get an idea. If I'm even in the right range of budget for them, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I also don't want and this is kind of I might be going to in detail here, but this is also has to do, I think, with your business model like do you want people? I only want people that are coming to me, that have drawings that are already here at this part of the process, that are already whatever, and if that's your process, that's totally fine. Like there is a lot of hand-holding and headaches that come when you are, you're going to help them all along the way. That's more of a boutique experience, managing the architect and the engineer and all that stuff. Yeah, so you know that is more of the design build. But even design build doesn't necessarily deal with, like the permitting aspect from the very front.
Speaker 2:Well, and a good point on that too is you don't want to get. I think what guys don't know that they get some in trouble is I'm not bidding or planning or pricing to do all of that legwork with the architect, with the engineer, all the like, all of the stuff that needs to get done on the front end. I'm just I here's the bid to do the work. Okay, you signed, great. Now what do we need to do? And I spend three weeks of my time back and forth with the architect and now we've got the plans the engineer needs to sign off and I'm not even charging for that, right? So, understanding that in the very beginning, where, where's our baseline that we're starting with this customer, do you have drawings yet? Do you have plans? And, like you said, what's your business model? Am I going to do that? Do I have those contacts? And I'm going to boutique the whole thing. Yeah, I'm going to mark everything up, maybe a cost plus model or a line item that's going to charge for managing that stuff.
Speaker 1:But yeah, you got to make understanding where I'm starting and what I'm needed for on the front end is part of the first conversation for sure, and I think that if you, if you want to have that type of like clarity in the, in the relationship, then having that's good and that's important. I enjoy, um, I enjoy the like, the kind of caveats and the weird things that you kind of have to figure out sometimes. Yeah, so the way I do it is I'll, if they haven't given me information, I'm going to reach out to them. However, they've kind of, if they've given me their email or phone number, I'll always call them first if they give me a phone number, but I'm just going to try and get that initial information from them. Yeah, um, try and get that initial information from them. Yeah, even if they're like I just really want somebody to come out, I'm like, yeah, absolutely, we can, let me, let me get some information, and that that might be the best next step.
Speaker 1:There might be some other things if you mind giving me, just like you know what's the, what's the square footage or what's the goal. That ultimately, my, my, my goal is to understand their goal. So, not necessarily, oh, we want an addition, but we want an addition because my mom's moving in. Okay, maybe we need to talk about ADA or the future possible need for ADA accessibility. That we need to do now because we're going to be messing with this exterior wall. So let's talk about ADA. Maybe she hasn't thought about that.
Speaker 2:How much do we care about personally what we want versus resale value, versus like all sorts of questions on that front end as to usage of the space and what's the purpose is going to determine. You know, if it's solely I need to add the square footage to increase my resale value, that's a totally different bid than my my mom's moving into the basement and it's got to be perfect for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then what a lot of people are. You know they'll do an addition and it's like we, we want to move the kids upstairs. It's like, okay, that's better, that's good knowledge. Because why don't we talk about we're going to have to pop the top? Why don't we talk about doing a layer of insulation really soundproofing insulation in between the bottom floor and the top floor? We need Really soundproofing insulation in between the bottom floor and the top floor. We needed all they wanted to do was do like a playroom upstairs. We got a lot of space up there. Why don't we add two bedrooms and two dormers and you get two bedrooms out of the deal that are really more beneficial than just a big open space. You know, those are the types of things you start adding value to the client by just your knowledge in the industry and offering them suggestions. They don't always have to take it, but giving them your knowledge, and that's part of the education too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, and one of the hard parts in coaching guys about this part of the process is this really is an art form process. Is this really is an art form? It's not like you do a, b, c, d and E and you're off to off to the races, because I feel like almost every client's a little bit different and there's an art to creating what they want, pulling that out of them. When do I do this? When do I not do this? When do I do you know? When do I go on site, cause they that's all they asked for versus when do I have to get? So we can't. We're talking through the different ways that we create it on our own and and really like our. There's a ABCD list of you do the intake, you do the phone call, you do a desk estimate, you do an onsite, you sign the contract, right. That's kind of the flow that we've always coached on and talk about on the podcast. But, that being said, the purpose is not task driven and guys want to have tasks. Guys want to have. I got to do this, then I got to do this, then I got to do this and that's those are my tasks. I know it's desk estimate time. I'm not going to come out there until I do a desk estimate for you, right? And that is not the purpose. The purpose is not completing these tasks. The purpose of what we're doing is that everything we want we're doing during this process is to build trust with the customer. Understand the fit both ways not just if we fit them but if they fit us is what what we want to say yes to, and then also understanding the vision and goals and making sure that their vision and goals lines up with their budget. Right, and so if we build the trust, we understand we're a good fit for each other and we've got that vision, we're going to land that client every single time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so, going along with that, you know that first phone call that you have, let's say that that's where we start, right, we've got the phone call In that first phone call, before we've even put numbers together, before we've talked through. You're talking about we're asking what they're looking for. You know, help guide. You're talking about we're asking what they're looking for. Help guide me on what I'm going to build out estimate-wise, the purpose of the space, why you're doing the addition, new build, whatever's happening. And then what else are you looking for? I know oftentimes we're looking for red flags in that conversation, kind of this stuff the fit part, right, do they fit me or not? What are the red flags for you that is not a fit versus the green flags that you're like? Oh, I want to work with these people.
Speaker 1:So really, the only the only red flag that I have, that's like I'm not going to pursue this. I'm not going to try with this person, is if, even through conversation, the only thing that's going to satisfy them is if we have somebody go out there. They don't want to see a desk estimate, they don't want this. And when I explain it, I've never had anybody say oh yeah, no, I'd really prefer you just come out, because the explanation is you know, I've been doing this for a while.
Speaker 1:For a while I can do a pretty good job of getting us in the right ballpark just by having a conversation with you and spending an hour of my own time, kind of building something together, and then I want to share that with you and talk through it with you and make sure that I've got an understanding of it before I send my project manager out, because that's an hour drive time, an hour on site with you, an hour back to the office working up the estimate.
Speaker 1:You know, an hour or two, depending on how big it is. It's a lot, it's a big time spend and I'm pretty, I'm pretty good at getting us in the right ballpark so that we at least know if we're going to be a good fit. Now, if they are not okay with that and they're like I just don't feel comfortable with that, I want somebody to come out, that's fine. I value my time more than that, because I already. If that's how immovable they're going to be on something that is not costing them anything, what's it going to be like when we have to talk about change orders? These are the types of people that our customers always write. Don't you know? Don't you know that you know? I don't want to enter into that agreement. Even if it's a great job, even if I can get the right profit, that's not worth it to me.
Speaker 2:Well, and the close ratio on those type of customers are very low. When, when it's a yeah, I don't have time, just come out and give me a price on it. Yeah, well, I don't know what I'm giving you a price on, I just need to have a conversation, understand. Well, I'm I'm doing the basement. I just need to come out, price out, renovate my basement Great, I want to have a 30 minute conversation. I can get some round numbers for you, and if they're not willing to spend 30 minutes of their time but they want to spend four hours of your time, that's an unequal relationship and we're starting off in a desperation mode. I'll do whatever you say, yeah, and it just starts the relationship that way.
Speaker 1:They more often than not and this is why people they might have that opinion at first the client I'm saying after you explain it to a most people are like that makes total sense. Yes, that makes total sense. And if they don't, if they don't think about it that way, then that's fine, we don't, we don't need to spend our time and it has nothing like. That's just a personal decision for me. I don't want to spin my tires, but I also think that it's a smart business move because those people tend to you bleed money on those jobs, whether you see it on paper or not. Yeah, I had something you said.
Speaker 1:Oh, there was a guy the other day and I really appreciated this. He was having us do an estimate and he was like, hey, I don't know if this is really shitty or not, but, um, I have other guys that I'm estimating this on the same day and like the same time, like is that okay? And I was like I appreciate you, that's not shitty at all. I appreciate you saying that it is pretty uncomfortable going in there and bidding for other people with other guys around, like you, kind of. And I told him you're not going to get the best bids from these guys because they're now they're concerned with competing with knowledge and saying stuff.
Speaker 1:That just to say stuff, because they're walking around asking you questions. It's a weird situation and I'd rather not do that if we could come in at a different time and he was totally cool with that, totally understanding. But it's just like you need to know what you're, where you actually stand on that type of thing and if, if you're really hurting for work and you're like I'll take whatever, maybe you go and do that. But I think it's important to just like, for your mental health, to know what your boundaries are. And if you have clients that like aren't, they don't have the same boundaries, it doesn't mean that they're a bad person, but they either lack the knowledge or they lack the understanding of what your industry is and they're just not the type of person that's willing to accept something outside of their own.
Speaker 2:And that's where the client engagement agreement is masterful at, because it's saying this is the boundaries. This is what I expect out of you, this is the most you should expect out of me, but again, I'm jumping ahead. That's where we kind of engage post estimate.
Speaker 2:So at this point Sorry, I've gone off- on a terrible tangent, but at this point also, I think I think one attitude adjustment I don't make sure that that you would be having as my project manager or running your own company is this isn't a arms crossed. I don't know. What do you got for me, right? It's not a power move, it is more of a hey, I want this to work. Let me try to get us to the finish line. I want you to walk beside me because we're going to do this Right, and it's the attitude of I'm trying my hardest to make this work. So, even if it's like this person is is kind of that, that blunt on the phone, no, I don't have time for that, just come out and give me a price. I'm not going to be like well then, I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1:Right, it's not that.
Speaker 2:Instead, it is a listen. This is part of our process. You know, this is how we are efficient when we get on site, because I have all of this stuff, so I'm saving you time, where my estimate is going to be 45 minutes as opposed to three hours trying to get this information from you. So this saves us time and this is just part of our process. Well, I don't know if we're the best fit for you. Yeah, is more of the conversation.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's it's old adage, you know, you don't ever have to throw the baby out with the bath water Like it might feel good in the moment to be like, well, if you, dude, I got my time's more valuable than that, and like we don't need to stand on a soapbox about it, it's you, leave it with. I totally get it, and you've already explained to him. This is why I like to do this. This is why it's my process. I think that I'm more accurate. I think it's more efficient in the long run. I think I capture more information than the other guys that you're talking with because of the way that I do my process. And if they're still not okay with that, it's I totally get it. If you, if you need to revisit that at any point, I'm here, give me a call. I'm happy to help, offer to look at their scope. I'm happy to look at your scopes and see if there's any holes in it that you're like they have nothing to lose. No one's ever taken me up on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I'm like yeah, don't burn the bridge, because they. How many times have we had people come back and say, hey, we need you to come in?
Speaker 2:and I'm two months into this guy, I'm the guy that took my money and ran.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we've. We've stepped in on a lot of projects like that, and it's cause you don't. You don't need to burn the bridge, you don't need to throw the baby out of the bath water, just stick to your processes.
Speaker 2:Cool, so we had the first conversation the client wants what?
Speaker 1:Sorry, flags, red flags we had one flag, and here's just a kind of a random list of other things that I'm paying attention to in conversation. Okay, do you have kids? How young are they? Are you living in the house? Are you living in the house? Are you planning on living in the house during the renovation? Is there any way that you guys might be doing?
Speaker 1:And these are you don't need to hit them with all these right right up at the front. So actually, let me pare this down. Do you have kids? How young are they? Do you have pets? Um, like, how are they kept?
Speaker 1:Because these are the types of things that, over the course of the project, become problematic. You can't ask this, but hopefully they tell you. And we're expecting a baby, like I've had. So they tell you we're expecting a baby, like I've had so many of those. We're expecting a baby and we're doing the project.
Speaker 1:For that reason, I'm not going to get into it with them at that moment, but when I during not necessarily we're not going to hold that conversation, but after we have gained some rapport, that's a conversation that we're having hey, kind of the client engagement agreement, like, let's talk. Yeah, but I'm talking before, way before the CEA happens, we're reviewing the project, like before we even go on site. We might have the type of rapport where I can say so just your timeline, you got a baby coming. It's. This is stressful already and I I I don't want to pause or you know whatever. I just want to make sure that we really talk through what that's going to look like when we actually start working and you guys are sleep deprived and the baby has nap times and guys are ringing the doorbell, even though we have a sign on saying, say, don't ring the doorbell.
Speaker 1:So there's those types of things that I'm always looking for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the the question that we've got on our intake form I think it's even on our website is is there anything? Is there anything affecting your timeline, like I forget the way we phrase it, but something about, like you know, do you have a set timeline? And if there's anything that's affecting it meaning you know I have to be done by January 15th, because my January 15th because my we're throwing a wedding, whatever it is that's I need to know that information up front, because if I think I can get this project done in two months, great, but I need to know that I've got a third month just in case something goes wrong. Yeah, and so kind of having those conversations up front is good.
Speaker 1:So yeah, where are we now? So?
Speaker 2:that's, that's the front end conversation and again, that's going a little deep in it, but that's if you're on that front end conversation for 30 minutes kind of getting more information. But that whole first conversation is I'm trying to get the trust built, I'm trying to see if we're a fit and I'm trying to understand your total goal with what we're doing From there. We're also trying to get a bunch of information from them. I'd like to get a budget.
Speaker 2:People 50-50, 75-25 want to give you a budget, don't want to give you a budget. And so understanding kind of the budget where on our website it's even you know the 10,000 to 25-25 to 75, the kind of ranges to kind of understand where they're at. Because if someone needs an addition and they've got a $10,000 budget, we're not coming out there, yeah. And so understanding that that type of information, you know how far along on the process are you if you're doing an addition or new build um in terms of of engineers, architects, that sort of thing. Once I gather all that information from that, first call you're, you're, you're kind of deciding a couple different things, but here's there's this is where, like the art yes, art comes in there's.
Speaker 1:It's hard to. It's hard to like be on that date. If you've got like a list of questions, like, okay, great, so do you have a set of drawings yet? Okay, wonderful, do you have, uh. And then you start using, like these industries. Do you have a plot? Do you have, uh? And then you start using, like these industries. Do you have a plat? Do you have a? Have you, uh? Are there any easements? Like you're going to overwhelm them and you're not going to get on that next call because they're like, yeah, they knew what they were talking about, but god, oh, my, like I don't know. Like I need to have my google up, like while they're talking. Yep, so there's, there's certain things like if you know, you're going for fit and purpose, not task of.
Speaker 2:I got to ask all these questions.
Speaker 1:So, like we're doing an addition, okay, great Is it. Are we talking about our ROI? Is that important to you? You don't need to go into a ton of detail if they're like no, but it opens up all of the conversations like, okay, roi is important. So if you want me to accomplish this, are you okay with me taking some liberties in some areas to get this into a more attainable budget? In my mind, great.
Speaker 1:There's other ways to kind of figure out where they're at in terms of the budget. You know there's numbers that you can kind of throw out while you're just talking, but I typically, if they're not willing to give me a budget, I'm okay with spending some time and figuring out what I think is feasible, because and this could be a whole different topic that we talked about but like this is the time where you can actually really invest in, like your paperwork and your pricing and your numbers. So you don't always just need to look at doing these estimates as an opportunity to land work, but every time you're doing a big estimate is a huge opportunity to update your pricing, to learn more about the process, to, like, dig in. I don't know much about concrete.
Speaker 2:I'm going to really dig in and it was like the more out about, like the Barnuminium one that we were doing where it was and again, this is kind of going further down once we had some pricing wrapped around it. But once you had pricing wrapped around it, we were a couple hundred grand over what they could do, and so you started getting creative. What if we did this? Do you care that much about this part of it? Yeah, but then you also use that as kind of research on what's the difference of a Barnuminium versus a new build, because we've done new builds but this is our first Barnuminium, right, and so it was kind of the educational piece but also post-desk estimate. It allowed you to kind of get creative on what's their goal with this space and how can I make it cheaper but also achieve what they're looking for.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, and I think, keeping in that, at the end of that conversation I always I always try and kind of leave them with more information they were probably looking for. But I want to get my. I want them to understand what the next steps are and what I'm actually providing for them, because you have people that haven't said this to you yet. But what they're going to do is take your estimate and submit it to the bank and say, hey, this is what I have three contractors, here's what they're all saying. I'm not ready for them to do that because the bank is expecting those numbers to be more baked than I have them. So in that conversation, before we get off, I'm saying I'm going to spend an hour or two depending on how big the job is, you know putting together a proposal. Essentially, there's going to be some numbers that I feel good about. There's going to be other numbers that I don't, that we're going to have to really get guys on site to wrap better numbers around it.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, this is an estimate and until I have all of my guys, look it over, look over these drawings, or we have to get the drawings made and this, that and the other. We'll talk about due diligence at some point. But I'll tell them about that due diligence and all of the work that we need to do to turn the estimate into a quote. And the quote is something that we feel comfortable standing behind so that sometimes can come up in that first conversation where it's like we want to submit this to our bank or we want to submit this for a VA loan. Well, we need to be more accurate with our numbers. Then I can't just give you a desk estimate or even a site estimate in a lot of cases, but even the data of I'm trying to submit this for my loan means oh, that's where they're at in the process.
Speaker 2:They've already talked to the loan officer, they're looking at their money, they've got pre-approved so that again, maybe I'm skipping desk estimate, coming straight on site, because that sort of information changes the ability of moving quicker.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I think that's the again is part of like what's your process and what's your model? I'm not always trying to move quicker and what's your model? I'm not always trying to move quicker, I'm really trying to, and this is a luxury when you have a, when you can have a like a smaller setup. If you've got like a couple project managers and you're not like scaling is not really necessarily what you're looking to do. I understand there's probably, like I said earlier, it's probably more efficient way to do it, but what I have found is the process is so much more enjoyable when you can take the time that you actually need and even if your client is trying to push you to go faster, you need to be the one to say I get it.
Speaker 1:I know we're all anxious to get going and this is where the education comes in. I have to do this before I can do this, and I have to do this before I can do this. That means we have to spend X amount of money up here, so we have to make a couple of decisions and get a good understanding before you start spending your money, and that's what we're trying to do. I don't want you to spend money until we feel like we're in a kind of a good spot and then let's really tighten it up so that when this project we're six months in, there's not a $20,000 change order that affects your ability to get this project complete. There's a lot of conversations that take place and it's too much to go into, but there's so many ways to get people to understand what you need to be doing, to put together a complete quote for them and when they understand, that it makes the whole process really easy.
Speaker 2:Cool, so you do that. That's the front end first conversation. We've got that done, you've. You've checked them out. You've checked the red flags you are now looking at. You've let them know what the next steps are. Right? That's kind of the end of that conversation. What I need to do, what I'm going to pull together, I'm going to put together a desk estimate for you. The next step for you, ideally, is putting a desk estimate together. It's not coming out there, though we sometimes do go out there I'm going to.
Speaker 1:I'm going to schedule before I get off the phone with them or my email, I'm going to schedule a review. So in a couple days I'm going to have this stuff together for you. Let's get it on the calendar. I'm going to send you a zoom link. That way it's on our calendar and now I've got kind of a time frame where I can get my estimate together. So go ahead. No, you go ahead, you're about to. No, I was just going to keep going.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say, after you do that, between sitting down and writing up that estimate on a desk estimate and putting some time into there we'll talk about that next what type of research and time that you're spending and not spending between that phone call and doing the desk estimate Because I know what you do is you like to show up to that desk estimate to impress them, and so what's the level of research and what type of things do you do that can really impress them to make sure you land that client?
Speaker 1:So obviously everybody's kind of got their own way. They evaluate their clients and, depending on how I feel about that client, it's really going to be how much time and how many resources am I going to use to like get the information? Yeah, and when I say resources, I mean like chat. Gpt is one that I use for specific things. You know the County city websites, looking up you know what information exists out there currently. You know there's sometimes they have plats already there and I can find out where the septic is.
Speaker 1:I can find out where the, the, the property lines are and if what they're wanting to do is going to be in conflict with setbacks. There's a lot of information that you can find out there for free. Um, and as I'm putting that together, I'm I'm thinking through things like there's a prop net or prop wire. There's one you can look up and see, like, what their equity is, and there's a ton of other information but you can see, like how much is paid off, which is kind of creepy. You can get it, you can get your name removed and everything but, um, most people are on there and you can find out how much equity is in their house. So you can even come to them with an option of like, yeah, this is an expensive renovation, but you've got this much equity or you don't.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say, but do you have a lot of equity? Because you could think about a HELOC and that would give them the cash where it makes it so much easier for you, as the contractor or whoever, to be engaging with them, because when the cash is there, it's it's like okay, we can do the thing we wanted to do and they're not beating you up on the budget to give them a product they're not really going to be happy with. I don't have any connection with anybody with helox and I always tell them that I'm I don't sell the product, I just this is like not everybody still knows about them or uses them or you know whatever.
Speaker 2:Well, and what's great is it doesn't take three hours of research. No, Excuse me, it doesn't take three hours, it takes 15 to 20 minutes. I've got a couple of websites I can go check and when I sit down to do a desk estimate, I've got their plot pulled up in front of me. I've got some some really impressive stuff where it's like, oh, this guy's doing his homework and we're building the trust that, like attention to detail, this guy knows what he's talking about, he's he's spent. I mean, when you pull up three or four docs that you found on on on public websites, it takes 10 minutes to find that stuff If you know where you're looking for. And at that point you're sitting down with them and they're like, oh my gosh, this guy spent two days of research on this. To put this together.
Speaker 1:I mean I pull up, I pull up free form that like it's on Mac and everything that I'm doing. It's like basically a project board and I'm putting every all of my resources that I'm using, I like put them on there and then when I'm reviewing it with the client, I just pull up that free form, share my screen and I'm clicking into everything. It's got my notes and stuff and it looks probably a little bit messy because my notes are, you know, odd, but you know it's got like the documents sitting there. You can go in and out of them and that is a really impressive thing and it's helpful to feel like, if you're more like we've got those pads where you can kind of draw stuff on it, yeah, it's more fun. Like we've got those pads where you can kind of draw stuff on it, yeah, it's more fun.
Speaker 1:Like, and it's actually like engage with the actual project. And this is more of a headspace thing, like if you don't enjoy that aspect of it, like this isn't going to be fun for you and if it's not fun for you, you're not going to put out a very good product, it's going to be stale. So, honestly, all of the ways that I've tried to start doing estimates. Honestly, I have more of a pull on like what's engaging me, because when it's that it's a lot more enjoyable and the person gets a lot better products. So doing the research and finding out all that stuff is fun for me.
Speaker 2:And when it's fun for you and you're enjoying that stuff, you're landing the client there. They trust you. They're building that side of it where it's like this is the guy that I want to build my house or this is the guy that I want to do that, spend 200 grand to to do the additional space that I'm putting on the house.
Speaker 1:So a great example is we had a client just yesterday reach out. She's been quiet for eight months. She stopped communicating, but because of the front end work that we did, they didn't do the project. They are not even going to do the project. We landed them, or we have the opportunity now to land them because we did a great job on the front end. So it's like it's not wasted If you leave, if you leave it in a good spot with them. It's not wasted because they're going to tell their friends about a really different front end experience. Even if you were too expensive for them or they ended up selling the house instead of renovating, they're going to tell people about it.
Speaker 2:If you really, if you impress them, we've had referrals from non-customers, right, like, oh, I got your name from this person. Oh, I think we did an estimate for them a couple of years ago but we never landed anything. And it's just because, if you can impress them on this front end with the intake phone, call, the caring for them and their vision and their goal, some re, a little bit of research and then sitting down with the desk estimate that you've put together and saying, okay, this is what I see, this is what you talked, we talked about. Um, that's really the. That's compared to the guy you're bidding against, who they called the first day with you. Right, I've talked about this plenty on the podcast, but I'm like my I'm on, yeah, the the note taker on site who's just writing some notes down and sending over an Excel spreadsheet of some ballpark pricing.
Speaker 1:And that's a good, that's a that's a nice one. Yeah, the Excel spreadsheet yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what you're competing against is they called you today. You, yeah, and what you're competing against is they called you today. You, jared James and this other guy have the same phone. Jared, he's leaving, he's out of here. I said he did it one time.
Speaker 1:I said the first time's the last time I told you that.
Speaker 2:So Jared over here. But you show up on the same day, they call you and then they call the competitor and you have this conversation asking about their goals, asking about their purpose, asking about understanding what they're doing, why they're doing it, and you have a 15 minute phone call with them. The next guy says, yeah, I can be out there Friday. Let me know, text me the address and I'll be about there between noon and two. Right, and so already we've impressed them. And then you've done some research, you've had the conversation, you've put together a desk estimate by Thursday for them, so they've already seen numbers from you. You've already done some research, you've got a bunch of stuff put together and your competition hadn't even been on site yet or doesn't even know the last name of the homeowner, right, and so it's getting that if, and so it's getting that if we can sell and get that bond ahead of time to where it's like when I finally come on site on Friday. We're on our third date, where the other guy that you called is on his first date with you taking notes on site, and it's a very unpleasant experience with him just sitting around taking notes and asking questions and measuring walls, as opposed to us. We're on our third date with them and so that's that's the goal of landing every single customer. Yeah, so we're going to wrap there.
Speaker 2:We've got some other stuff we'll talk about, but we're going to go kind of a part two next, next podcast, we're going to dive deep into how to build the perfect estimate. So what we're talking about today kind of carries on to there, because we're going to talk about now that we've done it in person. We're going to talk about next episode, the desk estimate and how that converts to a completed estimate, and so what details we want and how to build the killer perfect estimate. Any final words? Yeah, I forgive you. Thank you, I appreciate that. All right, signing off for Jared and Clark. Talk to you later.
