How to Price your Estimates

Ever wondered how contractors can accurately price projects without losing their shirts? Join us as we unlock the secrets of pricing estimates for contracting companies, ensuring you never undercut yourself again. We tackle the common challenges contractors face, revealing strategies to move beyond generic cost lists to tailor-made estimates that reflect the true cost of labor and materials. With insights into desk estimates, site evaluations, and final revisions, you'll learn how to draw from past projects and current daily rates to develop precise and profitable pricing models that align with your business and project needs.

But that's not all—understanding profit margins is crucial to your success in contracting. We dig deep into financial management, offering you a road map to track costs, overheads, and determine your breakeven point. By leveraging tools like ProStruct360 and QuickBooks, you can make informed pricing decisions that drive growth and sustainability. We'll share industry benchmarks for profit margins and caution against the pitfalls of underpricing, equipping you with the knowledge to strategically plan for financial security without jeopardizing job acquisition.

Finally, we explore the art of adjusting profit margins depending on the project's nature, from roofing to full-scale renovations. Gain insights into the cost-plus model and learn how to balance cost, time, and customer charges effectively. And don't miss our upcoming Financial Boot Camp for Contractors, where you can hone essential skills in time and financial management over a focused twelve-week period. With just an hour each Friday, this boot camp promises to enhance your personal and professional growth, arming you with the tools to view and manage your finances like a pro.

Struggling to grow your contracting business? The Foundations Program is designed to help contractors break free from the chaos and build a business that runs smoothly. You’ll get a customized training program, 1-on-1 coaching, and access to a full paperwork database—including contracts and the Client Engagement Agreement. Join the Foundations Program today! 🚀

Go to ProStruct360.com or schedule a meeting with Clark at Have a question or an idea to improve the podcast?
Email us at team@prostruct360.com or text us at +1 (678) 940-5747

Want to learn more about our software or coaching?
Visit our website at ProStruct360.com

Chapters

• 0:01 Pricing Estimates for Contracting Companies
• 9:51 Calculating Profit Margins in Contracting
• 17:10 Assessing Pricing and Profit Margins
• 28:39 Financial Boot Camp for Contractors

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Welcome to Contractor Cuts, where we cover the good, the bad and the ugly of growing a successful contracting company.

Speaker 2: 0:13

Welcome back to Contractor Cuts. My name is Clark Turner, I'm Jared Flo. Thank you for joining us again this week. So today's podcast is about how to price your estimates. We've never been asked that question before. No, no, that's something that just happens magically and you're good to go. Now we want to dive into this topic because pricing your estimates is where you either make or lose your money. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 0:33

Well, and every single person that we talk to about the software, they ask do you have a list of, like, all the prices for me so that I can just pick from the list and automatically drop them in there? And the answer is no, no, we don't have that because it's impossible to have an accurate list, right? So that's something that you know. How do we, how do you make it easy? People are always looking for, like, how do I price estimate to be better if I just had a list to choose from. I don't want to have to think through it. And the problem with that is, even if we did have a list, that list and the numbers and the margins that are associated in that list are not going. They may or may not be good for where you're at in business. They're not associated with your numbers, what you need, what your direction is. So there's a different way to go about it.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Yeah. So when I'm looking to build an estimate, the first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to start with asking the question how much is this going to cost me to get this done? And one of the most important things is, I need to know cost of labor, cost of materials, who's going to do it? How much is it going to be before I can tell you how much the price is? And that's the hard part. How much is it going to be before I can tell you how much the price is? And that's the hard part. That's the art of building an estimate that guys struggle with, of like, I don't know how much someone's going to charge me for that. Well, let's figure that out, because if I don't know how much someone I'm at to pay for this, then how am I supposed to charge for it? Now I get it. It's either going to, you know, when I I'm doing a new HVAC system. It could be 7,000. It can be 12,000. I'm not quite sure. Let me get kind of some round numbers around it. Let me think through how much this has cost in the past. This looks similar to that other house. That house was nine grand. Let's go with that number, right, and so you can.

Speaker 2: 2:15

You can get generalizations and we're not going to go into our different, the different revisions of estimates today, right, but what we do preach is we have our, our desk estimate. That starts with just putting some round numbers, our site estimate, which is really tying what we're doing, getting our measurements, all that stuff. And then, after the site estimate, once we have signatures, we do revisions, which in the revisions that's when I'm walking with my HVAC guy. So site or desk estimate is it's going to be about 10 grand for your HVAC system, the, the site estimate. I'm looking, I'm measuring, I'm figuring out the size, the, the CR rating, all that stuff.

Speaker 2: 2:52

I'm looking at that saying, okay, I did this one actually for nine grand last time. It's what I charged someone. So I'm going to, I'm going to put it there, and then the revisions are. I'm walking the job site with my HVAC guy, he's got the blueprints, he knows what we're doing and he's like, actually, clark, because X, y and Z and we've got to do this, I actually need to charge about $1,000 more than last time and so then I can make that third revision. So that's a different podcast for a different day. Today we're talking about? How do I get that first desk estimate number and the site number and then how do I then charge the customer accordingly?

Speaker 2: 3:26

So, asking how I'm going to get the cost, how I'm going to do that.

Speaker 1: 3:31

What's it going to cost me to execute this thing Exactly Right, whether it's a line item or an entire job, what's it going to cost me to get that done? If I know that, then I can work into my next numbers.

Speaker 2: 3:43

Yep, right. So once I know that, once I can work into my next numbers? Yep, right, so once I know that, once I have a good bearing of what that is. And one other thing to cover with that looking at the old jobs, looking at what I've done before, but also something that we preach, a very basic way to do it. I pay a guy $400 a day. I pay him and his helper 500, whatever it is, I know from our experience he's going to take at least two days to do this. Let's put it at three. So I need to pay him 1500. So I'm going to put my costs at 1500 for labor on this material. Wise, let me do some math. Let me add that up about 500 bucks of material. So my cost on this line item is $2,000, right, so we're, we're at that spot right now. We've looked at it, we've, we've laid that out. I feel pretty comfortable with that. I might get him to do it for 12.

Speaker 1: 4:34

He might need 16, but 15, I feel comfortable with bidding as my as how much it's going to cost me to do this. And you, you may have been in business long enough with with crews, long enough to know that information, right, how much this guy needs. And then you know I need X amount per day, right. But then being able to, you know, you may have been in business long enough to look at a what needs to get done and have a relatively good estimate of how long it's going to take, right, if I pay a guy $400 a day and I look at something and said, okay, it's probably going to take two days, it's 800 bucks, right, but you may be, you may be new to this and you may not know. I really don't know how long that's going to take. Use your resources, use the tools you've got in front of you. Go to the guy that you want to have this done and say, hey man, here's what I want to get done. How long do you think that's going to take?

Speaker 1: 5:19

Now the question that people are going to ask well, isn't that guy going to try and take advantage of you and float that number and be like, oh, I could probably get it done in three, but I'm going to ask him for five and, yes, probably so, right, but you've got to start somewhere. Yeah, right, Even if it's a two-day job. And he says I need three, right, and you've priced it out to do it for $1,200. You're going to dial that in, and the longer you do it, the more accurate you're going to be able to get at that information. But if you don't know, use the resources around you, use the people that that know.

Speaker 1: 5:54

When I first started in this business, I you know I was coming in behind you with a decent crew, a really good crew, who knew how to do all the work, and he was a trustworthy guy, and so I leaned on him a lot to know what do you need to make this happen? So here's all the work. If I pay you $5,000, you're going to be happy. He's like, yeah, no problem, right, okay, cool, I can work with that. I now, can you know what margins do I need as a company?

Speaker 2: 6:27

And then I can build my price from there. If you're listening and you're saying I, I, you know, I don't really know that yet I don't really, I don't feel comfortable in, in figuring that number out and just putting a number on it right now. You shouldn't be writing estimates because what you're saying is I don't know how much this is going to cost, but I think I can charge this. That is the absolute worst place you can be. You can get yourself in big trouble. Yeah, so you need to learn that. You need to work for somebody else. You need to work with crews. You need to be a project manager for another company to understand pricing. You need to be trained on that. You need to do some research and Google and figure out and talk to people, get on faith. You need to understand your costs before anything, because that's where you either lose or make money. If I think I can get something done for five and I bid it at $7,500 and the crew comes back and like I need eight, Well, I either lost this job, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The cost is the most important thing, because from there we'll go on to the next spot.

Speaker 2: 7:19

I'm not figuring out a price to charge the customer. What I actually am doing is I need to know my margins. I need to know how much profit I need to make for this company to be successful. So I'm not saying I can pay this guy $5,000. So I'd like to make two, Seven grand is what I'm not saying. I can pay this guy $5,000. So I'd like to make two. Seven grand is what I'm going to charge the customer. That's not how we price estimates Jared. How would you start walking through understanding and knowing your margins? What are the steps you take to figure out what that margin should be?

Speaker 1: 7:50

Yeah, so the process starts with, like we said, you got to figure out your cost, right. Once I figure out my cost, the next thing that I got to figure out is what kind of just, like you said, what kind of profit do I need to make for this company to be successful? And where I start with that is what's my breakeven number, right? What the breakeven number is is everything outside of your job cost, everything that you pay for that is not materials and labor, right? Your cell phone, your truck, your gas, your office, your insurance, all of those things that you can't tie to a specific job but are cost to run your business. How much money is that? And what percentage of that is that of my revenue, of the money that I'm bringing in? Right? And so if you've got some data of a month, two months, three months, four months where, on average, I'm doing, just for an ease of number, $100,000 a month in revenue, right, and I have $20,000, that is my overhead cost. That's what to pay everybody to get all my bills paid, for me to take a paycheck, it's cost me $20,000 a month. That means that my overhead is 20% of my revenue. What that means is is that if I do my jobs and I set my profit to 20%, then I will be breakeven. If I hit my margin, if you, if you correct right If I charge what I said I was going to charge and at the end of the job I made 20 profit, what that means is that my lights are paid for, my gas is paid for truck insurance and my payroll. I've made what I need, you know, whatever it is, and there's zero dollars left over, right and so, from there now I know I can't go below that number. I cannot do a job for less than that amount of money, because if I do less than that, then I'm doing the job for free, right.

Speaker 1: 9:40

But what goes beyond that is that if you're breakeven, month over month over month, your company's not going to grow. It can't, it doesn't have any money to grow. One example of that is to hire somebody. You have to have money, because when you hire somebody, they're not going to come in day one and start earning cash. There is a period of time that it's going to take of you burning money to get them up to the place where they start earning money for the company, right. And so you have to above and beyond that 20%. You've got to be able to make the money for your business.

Speaker 1: 10:17

What industry standard is? On a million to a million two, average revenue a year is 4% net profit. That's after everybody's been paid. So we want to be above that. So if 20% is my breakeven, I want to be let's, double that number. I want to hit 28%. So I know that industry standards for I'm going to be making 8% profit as a business after everything's paid.

Speaker 1: 10:43

That's how I come into. This is how much. This is my target profit that I need to be making on average on every single job. Now there are jobs that you're going to be well above that and there are jobs that you're going to be below that and there's a reason for that and we'll go into that in just a second. But that's the process. Figure out your costs, figure out what your overhead is and what percentage that is of your average revenue. That gives you your break even number. To know I have to hit this number, yeah Right. And then what profit is reasonable for me to make above and beyond that? That's going to provide for the growth, the working capital in my business that I need to grow my business to the next level.

Speaker 2: 11:24

With that being said, there's there's two things that you'll get arguments on. Uh, the first, main one is I don't know what that number is. I don't know what my average. I just got started, or I've been doing it, and one month I averaged 20,000 in revenue. The next month I hit 150. I don't know what that number is.

Speaker 2: 11:41

Derek, this is going to be a constant assessment, month over month, trying to figure it out. Start at a percentage, find it. But we're doing this before we're sitting building an estimate. You have to know these numbers before, and the only way to get to those numbers is data. And the only way to have data is to be using a software. Get in ProStruck 360. It communicates and dumps all your information into QuickBooks and between our reporting and QuickBooks reporting, we can find these numbers very quickly, very easily.

Speaker 2: 12:12

But if you're not tracking, if you're not using the software, if you're not paying guys out, if you're not invoicing the right way for just writing an invoice and taking a check and depositing your bank, you will never know how to price a job. You will never get to that spot. So this isn't a something you can. It's not black and white, it's not all right. Well, my margin is 22%. That's my overhead cost of the margin. So I need to be at 31%. So I'll be Bob, that's never. You're not going to land in a spot. But what you're doing is assessing what you're looking at and say, okay, on average I did 20,000 last month of the month for us 200 in the month before. On average I think I can hit around a hundred on average. So let me go off that number and that's my goal to hit kind of minimum revenue a month over month.

Speaker 1: 12:57

Right, now an industry standard if you're brand new and you literally don't have any data, right. An industry standard is if you're a contractor, right, you're doing multiple trade jobs, industry standards going to be somewhere between 25 and 35%, somewhere in that range Right, and if you make the average of that, right. If you have no data, then price your jobs at 30% and then make sure you have a place where you're recording that data in ProStrux software. Make sure you have a place where you're recording that data in ProStrux software, in QuickBooks, on a yellow pad, however you're doing it, but record that data. What? How much did I spend? How much profit did I actually land on?

Speaker 1: 13:44

Also, if you're brand new in the business and you set it at 30 percent, I'm pretty much guaranteeing you're not going to hit 30 percent. You're going to lose 5 percent on the job by nature of doing it. But start there and then analyze your data, right, analyze the. Okay, I made this amount of money. I thought I was going to make this kind of profit. I didn't. That's a decent industry standard.

Speaker 1: 14:06

But then from there, the reason why you're dialing it in is are you landing the amount of estimates that you want to land right and in your area of town and what you're charging at 30%, are you well above everybody else? Okay, maybe you need to dial that back. Well, if you've got the data and you've been recording it and saying you know what 30% I'm making, like 15% profit, like net profit, above that right, I can cut that by 5% and dial it back in if I need to. If you're not landing the estimates that you need to land because they're overpriced based on your area of town but the only way to do that is to know your numbers We've had clients before that got in that space and felt like we're just not landing estimates, like we need to, we're going to cut what we're charging in profit. They had no rhyme or reason. Can you cut what you're paying to labor?

Speaker 2: 14:59

That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 15:05

Like they literally were. Like well, we're going to go from 30% down to 18 and we're only charging 18%. And we're like, well, let's run the numbers, well, your overhead's 21% of your revenue. Like you're literally going into debt doing jobs you know. Like well, we're landing more but you're not making any money. Yeah, right, and so that's where that data comes into play. And this is this. All goes into how how you write an estimate and price outline items correctly. One of the things that I say to people all the time is all intents and purposes, there are some industry standards of what you can charge for certain things. I'm not really sure that you can really get a hold of those right and be like, oh, this is what I can charge for this and this is what I can charge for this. It's a variation between area of town type of work. You know there's so many variables.

Speaker 2: 15:53

If you base your pricing on Xactimate, you're going to be out of business.

Speaker 1: 15:56

You can't just take someone else's word for it. What I always tell people is it doesn't matter what you can charge. How much do you have to charge? Find that out first. And let's say, executing of a thing. Industry standard says you can charge $1,000, which means the other two guys that the client's trying to price check you with is putting it at $1,000. But if, based on your business and the overhead and the calculations that we've just spelled out to you, you can actually do that $1,000 line item for 800 bucks and still make the profit you need above and then some, then I'm going to price it at 800 bucks and I'm the profit you need above and then some. Then I'm going to price it at 800 bucks and I'm going to land that job and I'm going to make the money I need because I'm well below the other guys. So it does, yes, I can charge a thousand but land the job and still make the profit that you need. But you have to know what that number is, yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:50

So finding the margin that you want, the profit margin that we want to average, is the second step. We know the cost, we know the margin. You open up ProStrux, you start building an estimate, you put your cost in. You probably preset a lot of your costs and margins to where it just dumps it into your estimate. The third step of it is I'm going to be assessing these Now. This is where experience and knowledge comes in.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Right, if I put 30% and I have a roof line and the I know my roofer charges 10 grand and so I price it at 13,000 and I'm using just a, a standard roofing company it's not just my crew, but it's actually a roofing company that I make one call. They do the work. I'm not going to land that job because roofing is pretty standard. You can get pricing from a couple of different people and they're all going to be around the same price, usually for the same product If you're, if you're, apples to apples with other other roofing companies. So, that being said, I might not be able to mark up roofing 30%. I know that as a contractor. If you're new, you might not know that, and so that is where I put those margins in.

Speaker 2: 18:00

And then I'm assessing line items. What am I going to edit? Can I go up to 1,000 instead of 800? Do I need to go from 13 down to 11.5? So it's only at 15% for that roof instead of 30. But I know I can land at that price point and so that's where I'm starting to assess. And so when we get into the assessment of price, the best way to do that if you don't have the experience and knowledge of what will and will not land, what's my output of time? What is going to be required of me for this specific line item on this specific job? That is the question you're asking. When we're editing the pricing above or below that 30% margin For the roof, I have to call the roofer. I've got to have a shingle picked out from the homeowner and I'm done with the job. The roofer's handling everything else. I'm not taking a ton of time to be able to do the roof. I don't need three grand because I'm not managing that much.

Speaker 2: 18:56

You're not managing the crew.

Speaker 1: 18:56

You're not, I don't need three grand because I'm not managing that. You're not managing the crew, you're not working on delivery and getting the product and all the stuff, and the crew has an issue and needs some nails and you're going. You're not managing all of that. The subcontracted roofing companies handling all that. I'm just making phone calls, yep.

Speaker 2: 19:12

Now, at the same time sticking on the roof. Example on this on job number one, I bid it at 11, five. I've got 10 grand for the cost. I it's all locked in. I know that's what my cost is going to be. I bid at 11, five. I'm only making 15%. But 1500 for a phone call when I wasn't even planning on doing the roof. Anyways, done, I'll handle that job.

Speaker 2: 19:34

B, down the road, A neighbor's like hey, you guys do roofs, can you do my roof? Yeah, absolutely, I'm going to go over, take a look at it. That's the only thing as a contractor I'm doing on that house. It's going to be a lot more work. I'm doing the front end, I'm doing estimates for it, I'm doing money collections. I'm doing, you know, answering calls about when they're going to be there. There's a lot more management on just doing a roof than if I'm doing a full renovation with a roof included, right. So what I'm going to do is get creative on that.

Speaker 2: 20:04

Second house, number two, I'm going to look at and be like well, they might be neighbors, they might know the price and I might not land it at 13,. But I know 11, five can land it, right. So I'm going to take the 11, five that I bid for, job number one, and put it on job number two and I'm going to put a project management fee of $1,500 or $1,000 or whatever. I need to get my final number up to the 1,300. I know I'm overpricing it, but for my time I need 1,300 for the roof on job two. Job one 11, five, same roof. That's all the time I need to spend on it because I'm already out there walking it. I'm already talking to the customer. It's not hard to manage that extra thing. So I'm getting technical and into the weeds with it.

Speaker 2: 21:42

But what you need to understand about this pricing is there's not one set price. It is how much of my time as the contractor and management do I need for managing this line Right, and so that's what we're assessing when we're willing to drop our price this line and so that's what we're assessing when we're willing to drop our price, willing to raise our price. On a roof by itself, I need 30%. On a roof with a lot of other items for a full-scale renovation, I need 15%. And I know those numbers because I've done this enough and I've understood and realized and figured out how much time each of these take me. That's an experience thing. But also start thinking that way Even if you don't have the experience, start thinking through all right, how many calls am I going to have to make about this? How much more is that adding here? And that is kind of how we're looking at how to edit that. So we have the cost, the margin, and then assessing what the margin number ends up being for what the charge to customer.

Speaker 1: 22:35

Yeah, well, another way to view that is let's take you out of the picture. Right, you're a project manager, right, you're paying for a paycheck, you're paying for gas, you're paying for the insurance to have that employee, you're paying the taxes on the pay that you're paying them. There's cost, literally costs to time, right. And so one of the thoughts that I was having is, like you know, if you are a contractor that does a cost plus model, standard is about 15%. Whatever I'm doing, I mark it up by 15% and that's the profit that I make on that job.

Speaker 1: 23:11

If you're a guy, that's a one man show and you've got a couple of contractors that you bring with you and whatever, and the only overhead cost you've got is you know some gas and you know insurance and whatever, fifteen percent is probably fine, right.

Speaker 1: 23:25

But if you're a, if you're a, a company that has structure and employees and people and an office manager, and you know, you've, you've got a building and all this stuff, 15% is not going to pay for the operating of your business that it takes to execute that job. And so what we do if we are doing a cost plus model is, yes, we're doing the industry standard of 15% on the line items. But just like you said, with the roof roof we're adding in a project management cost that is x amount of dollars and that is literally paying for giving me the money, above and beyond the 15, to pay for that guy's paycheck, his gas, the truck he's driving, the cell phone he's got right. That's. That's how you need to view those numbers of why that's in there. The 15 percent is not covering that. It's not enough because we've already determined my break even numbers Twenty percent.

Speaker 2: 24:24

Yeah, if it's cost plus, the cost is also the gas to get there, not the part of the plus. The plus is the profit we're making and covering some incidentals.

Speaker 1: 24:33

That's right.

Speaker 2: 24:34

So absolutely, that's. It's super important to make sure that that pricing makes sense and matches up, but also we have enough buffer in there for the expenses that we have, for the cost, plus a profit on top of that.

Speaker 1: 24:47

Well, and one of the things that people don't realize when you, when you know let's look, just for numbers sake, right, I have a hundred thousand dollar job. I make 30% on that job, which means that I'm bringing home $30,000. Of that $30,000, we've already talked about you're paying for your overhead. You're gaining actual profit in the business, but what you're also paying for is the free warranty work that's going to happen at some point. You're paying for the things that are going to come up, that a client needs you to go handle something for them that you can't really charge for. You've got to have money to handle that stuff. Every moment that you spend working costs your business. If you're a single business owner by yourself and you do everything, it's really hard to make that tangible because you're just working and doing and whatever. That's why I backed it back out and said let's say it's an employee. Every move that employee makes you're paying for and so you've got to have money coming in to cover that cost.

Speaker 2: 25:46

Yeah, If I'm going to run out on a Saturday to fix a door, I'm just going to do it and I don't. I don't feel the cost. If I've, if I'm running a larger company and I'm high and I'm paying a handyman to go out on a Saturday to fix that door, it's a couple hundred dollars at minimum, and so that is a cost that is worth charging the customer. Even though it's my time, I'm going to charge for it because that is a value that I'm bringing to you by coming out and fixing a door for you. That's great. I think the key to this, if you're boiling it down, is we have to track our data. You have to know your numbers to be able to build all of this. So knowing the cost and knowing your data is 99% of the knowledge.

Speaker 1: 26:27

That means I have to be an accountant and I have to have QuickBooks and I have to know how to account for all my work orders and account for my bills and invoices and make sure I apply the payments and the checks, and I don't know how to do that. I'm afraid to do that, yep.

Speaker 2: 26:40

If you're in ProStruck 360, our software that is built for contractors, it handles all of that for you. All you do is build your estimate. You can preset all of your template line items so it just dumps your numbers in there with your profits. You know, for us, if I have a roof line, all I got to do is put in the square and I've already got the price, I've already got my margin. I've got all that built in. After you do that, you send your invoice, you send your work orders, you mark guys and pay them. It's all done.

Speaker 2: 27:09

And all of that data is going to QuickBooks and staying in ProStruct for our reporting and we can look at that and say, hey, listen, your margin. You're spending $40,000 a month on overhead and you're invoicing 80,000. We got a problem here, Yep, Right. And so we can start looking at that of why you're not getting ahead, why you're slowing down and start working on uh, on creating efficiencies and and adjusting pricing and maybe getting new crews that are more too expensive. That sort of thing is how we can start tinkering with it and adjusting pricing and maybe getting new crews that are more too expensive. That sort of thing is how we can start tinkering with it and adjusting to make your numbers work and make your company successful.

Speaker 1: 27:44

Well, and that goes back to something we say all the time but if you want to be a big business, you have to act like one first Yep, and that's an aspect of it. There is not any successful business out there that didn't have their finances and their data that they can use to make decisions, to dial in efficiencies, all that stuff you just listed. If you want to grow and become a big business not a big business not saying you're going to all 50 states, but become a legitimate, successful business you have to know your numbers, you have to have the data and let the data help you make decisions in your business. That's right.

Speaker 2: 28:18

All right y'all. Thanks so much. If you want to hear more contact us, go to our website, prostruct360.com. Go to the contact us. We love to talk with you, chat with you, answer questions about estimate building. We love to hear from you, so reach out.

Speaker 1: 28:30

If you want help with finances, if you want to know how to view your finances, how to do this stuff better. How do I come up with that break-even number? All of that type of stuff? We've got a contractor boot camp coming up in the next month or so that we spend four weeks, amongst other things, where we're going through time management and system and process, but we will spend four weeks dialing in on exactly what you need to be doing with your finances.

Speaker 2: 28:54

Take a look at it on our website under the events page, sign up for it and get in on the next, and it's such a small commitment it's one hour every Friday for 12 weeks and a four week time block around finances and how to manage it, how to look at it, how to there we go, big picture, but then we zoom in and help you understand software level. So it's kind of a wraparound everything you need and a very concise meeting that you can start, and it's not a huge time commitment either. Exactly exactly, all right, thanks so much. We'll talk to you next week. See you, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.